309 Ugetsu

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unclehulot
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#126 Post by unclehulot » Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:51 am

Apparently the following Mizoguchi films are scheduled for production in 2007 by a company called Digital Meme.

Taki no Shiraito (The Water Magician) 1933
Orizuru Osen (Osen of the Paper Cranes) 1934

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Jeff
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#127 Post by Jeff » Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:16 pm

Gregory wrote:It's good to know that Janus has those. I wonder what the chances are that Rialto will re-release some or all of those across the country. I'm not sure how Rialto chooses its films, but they sure are heavy on French cinema.
Rialto won't actually release any of those. Janus will release them themselves. Rialto doesn't release Janus properties; Criterion licenses Rialto properties.

Before Criterion decided to reinvigorate the Janus brand, and self-distribute their films theatrically, they had a distribution arrangement with the now-defunct Cowboy Pictures.

Rialto, on the other hand is an American theatrical distributor that licenses foreign-owned films for theatrical distribution, and then sub-licenses them to Criterion for DVD release (except when the video rights are held by other companies). The vast majority of the films Rialto releases are owned by StudioCanal, which explains the preponderance of Frenchies.

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the dancing kid
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#128 Post by the dancing kid » Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:56 pm

unclehulot wrote:Apparently the following Mizoguchi films are scheduled for production in 2007 by a company called Digital Meme.

Taki no Shiraito (The Water Magician) 1933
Orizuru Osen (Osen of the Paper Cranes) 1934
That website claims that they're also releasing 'Orochi', which is great news. I don't know if that film has ever been officially released anywhere, but it's a really important piece of film history. I wonder what their source material looks like and whether or not it will include benshi narration.

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Steven H
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#129 Post by Steven H » Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:59 pm

unclehulot wrote:Apparently the following Mizoguchi films are scheduled for production in 2007 by a company called Digital Meme.

Taki no Shiraito (The Water Magician) 1933
Orizuru Osen (Osen of the Paper Cranes) 1934
Fantastic news! I can only hope they're paired together, as it might reduce the price. They also have a four disc collection of classic anime listed as "upcoming" which has my name all over it. Great find, unclehulot.

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Michael Kerpan
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#130 Post by Michael Kerpan » Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:41 pm

I think Orochi was available on video (with benshi narration -- but not subtitles) from Matsuda in Japan.

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#131 Post by Narshty » Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:20 am

A big fat let-down. I can't see what's so exemplary about Ugetsu to warrant the praise it's garnered. There doesn't appear to be anything terribly exciting about it - the performances are all quite good but nothing remotely standout (mind you, no character is offered more than two dimensions) and the script's structure and uneven pace is pretty weak. I agree the plot is terribly schematic and there's just no room for anything to breathe, despite the occasional longeurs during the film.
Last edited by Narshty on Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Gigi M.
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#132 Post by Gigi M. » Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:45 am

Narshty wrote:A big fat let-down. I can't see what's so exemplary about Ugetsu to warrant the praise it's garnered. There doesn't appear to be anything especially exemplary about it - the performances are all quite good but nothing remotely standout (mind you, no character is offered more than two dimensions) and the script's structure and uneven pace is pretty weak. I agree the plot is terribly schematic and there's just no room for anything to breathe, despite the occasional longeurs during the film.
I guess I didn't watch the same film.

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Michael
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#133 Post by Michael » Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:54 am

Ugetsu does suffer from the somewhat ridiculous side with Tobei. Its slapstick humor doesn't sit well with me...it feels like it was cut from another film and forced to be sewed up with Genjuro's completely enthereal story of superatural, eternal love and poetry. The last 10 or 15 minutes made me forget about Tobei and forgive the film.
Last edited by Michael on Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:14 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Lino
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#134 Post by Lino » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:12 am

This is a movie that needs to be watched more than once. I had pretty much your reaction at first but since then, it's grown on me and I am slowly beginning to see just why it's so beautifully done and quite apart from the rest of Mizoguchi's work.

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#135 Post by Narshty » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:15 am

Michael wrote:Ugetsu does suffer from the somewhat ridiculous side with Tobei. Its slapstick humor doesn't sit well with me...it feels like it was cut from another film and forced to be sewed up with Genjuro's completely enthereal story of superatural, eternal love and poetry. The last 10 or 15 minutes made me forget about Tobei and forgive the film.
That's odd, because I felt Tobei's story held far greater potential for its own film than Genjuro's, which is as old as the hills and had an ending that even someone narratively illiterate like myself could see coming. For a director revered for his attention and compassion for women, I found the short shrift in terms of character, logic and everything else given to Tobei's wife mystifying. One scene she's recovering from an apparent gang rape, then she meets Tobei in her brothel workplace and shouts at him, then they're back together happily and all's well. No bridging scenes between these three instances whatsoever. It doesn't ring remotely true and reminded me (horror of horrors) of the Love Actually "who cares about the middle bits?" technique of storytelling. The slow pace these were played did not gel with the truncated storytelling.

The attempt to blend the supernatural with the "real world" never really came over. You can sit there and state one of your characters is a ghost till you're blue in the face, but if she doesn't do anything terribly ghostly (staring intently doesn't count), it's all for naught. I kept waiting for something to make the hairs on my neck stand up, but...nothing. The lack of atmosphere was a major problem, from the lake scene (which Tobei inadvertently reveals to be about four feet deep when he punts off at the end) to the final "return home", my heckles remained disappointingly in place.

I've not seen anything else by Mizoguchi (and this hasn't put me off at all, I hasten to add), but this can't be his "crowning achievement".

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Michael
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#136 Post by Michael » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:23 am

Well Tobei's acting annoyed the hell out of me. It seemed fake, forced and exagerrated. Not consistent with the rest of the cast. Not in the harmony with the film itself. A distraction.

Anyway, my favorite moment of the whole film is the Lady ghost singing with the fan. The atmosphere of that moment is simple but overwhelming. Eerie, powerful.

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Michael Kerpan
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#137 Post by Michael Kerpan » Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:52 pm

The Tobei and wife sub-plot _could_ have been good -- but was handled rather poorly. My only other criticism is that Kinuyo Tanaka's role was so generic that it didn't require of her stature and talent to portray it. I think the Ghost Princess episode is mostly magnificent

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ltfontaine
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#138 Post by ltfontaine » Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:05 pm

Narshty wrote:That's odd, because I felt Tobei's story held far greater potential for its own film than Genjuro's, which is as old as the hills and had an ending that even someone narratively illiterate like myself could see coming. For a director revered for his attention and compassion for women, I found the short shrift in terms of character, logic and everything else given to Tobei's wife mystifying. One scene she's recovering from an apparent gang rape, then she meets Tobei in her brothel workplace and shouts at him, then they're back together happily and all's well. No bridging scenes between these three instances whatsoever. It doesn't ring remotely true and reminded me (horror of horrors) of the Love Actually "who cares about the middle bits?" technique of storytelling. The slow pace these were played did not gel with the truncated storytelling.

The attempt to blend the supernatural with the "real world" never really came over. You can sit there and state one of your characters is a ghost till you're blue in the face, but if she doesn't do anything terribly ghostly (staring intently doesn't count), it's all for naught. I kept waiting for something to make the hairs on my neck stand up, but...nothing. The lack of atmosphere was a major problem, from the lake scene (which Tobei inadvertently reveals to be about four feet deep when he punts off at the end) to the final "return home", my heckles remained disappointingly in place.

I've not seen anything else by Mizoguchi (and this hasn't put me off at all, I hasten to add), but this can't be his "crowning achievement".
For me, Ugetsu is less about “Tobei's storyâ€
Last edited by ltfontaine on Mon Jun 25, 2007 1:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Michael
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#139 Post by Michael » Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:54 am

For those of you who love Ugetsu, do check out Portrait of Jennie. I recorded it off TCM the other night because I remember reading it was Bunuel's favorite film. Watching it last night, I was struck by how similiar it was to Ugetsu - the eerie, otherwordly mood expressing the artists struggling to make a living, going through a spiritual crisis, and holding on to love. Jennie surprised me with its haunting artistry - its enthereal images of NY and its parks and Cape Cod's faraway lighthouse still linger in my mind.

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Gigi M.
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#140 Post by Gigi M. » Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:07 pm

Michael wrote:For those of you who love Ugetsu, do check out Portrait of Jennie.
Portrait of Jennie is available on DVD from MGM for under $10. Nobody should miss it.

Narshty
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#141 Post by Narshty » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:16 pm

Michael wrote:For those of you who love Ugetsu, do check out Portrait of Jennie. I recorded it off TCM the other night because I remember reading it was Bunuel's favorite film. Watching it last night, I was struck by how similiar it was to Ugetsu - the eerie, otherwordly mood expressing the artists struggling to make a living, going through a spiritual crisis, and holding on to love. Jennie surprised me with its haunting artistry - its enthereal images of NY and its parks and Cape Cod's faraway lighthouse still linger in my mind.
I found Portrait of Jennie a bit on the corny side (I've never seen Jennifer Jones give a convincing performance - she always does her best, but it's never quite good enough) and Selznick's ruthless editing barely allows the actors to take a breath between lines, let alone sink into the atmosphere and locale before you're whisked away to the next bit of plot and exposition. I'm sure there would have been plenty of lovely, lingering moments in there if Dieterle had had final cut.

If you've not seen the extraordinary Peter Ibbetson, please do. That's my benchmark for not-of-this-earth love stories. Who knew Henry Hathaway had such a film in him?

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Michael
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#142 Post by Michael » Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:55 pm

Corny, oh yes but I expected it anyway. That was my first experience with Jennifer Jones so I really can't say much about her. What made the movie for me was its ghostly vision of NYC. The surprising switch to colors in the end was a very lovely gift.

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chizbooga
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#143 Post by chizbooga » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:53 pm

I saw this movie at the Ontario Cinematheque this last summer. I was in a very distracted mood but i guess because of the perfection of Mizoguchi's technique i absorbed it in a very pure, sensual way. Maybe I was just being childish and in a vulnerable mood but it was the most terrifying movie id ever seen. All things Japanese are utterly foreign to me and there was so much to take in with this movie i felt like my head was exploding. the perfect naturalism, the simple humanity, represented best to me by that scene near the end with the two neighbours going about their everyday rituals, the sensible women tolerating their husbands foolishness, and the little boy putting flowers on his mothers grave. I know that makes it sound like some sitcom, but the style of the filming made it so meaningful. For me it was about the full range of human foolishness (or at least the range available in 16th century Japan) seen from the point of view of an amused and commonsensical lyricist, sort of like some aspects of a good Altman movie but more so, with a different style of acting. Mizoguchi had some eerie long takes that made my hair stand on end. Obviously part of what made the ghost-woman so frightening to me was how 'human' she was, she was a cringing gorgon clinging desperately to that stupid man. Anyway these are all of my jottings on a cuff, my scribblings on a bib, etc...

buskeat
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#144 Post by buskeat » Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:14 pm

Does anyone know why Ugetsu isn't available at DVDPlanet? It's not listed at all, not even as out of stock. It's like the thing never existed!

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domino harvey
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#145 Post by domino harvey » Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:14 pm

buskeat wrote:Does anyone know why Ugetsu isn't available at DVDPlanet? It's not listed at all, not even as out of stock. It's like the thing never existed!
They don't carry it or L'Avventura for whatever reason.

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Michael Kerpan
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#146 Post by Michael Kerpan » Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:52 pm

buskeat wrote:Does anyone know why Ugetsu isn't available at DVDPlanet? It's not listed at all, not even as out of stock. It's like the thing never existed!
There is a page there (saying this is either out of print or no longer stocked).

If you search for films starring Kinuyo Tanaka, it shows up -- though a regular title search doesn't work.

bluesea
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#147 Post by bluesea » Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:41 pm

Think about it, Tobei is very much a Kurosawian (is that a real word?) character.

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Felix
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#148 Post by Felix » Wed May 28, 2008 4:34 pm

skuhn8 wrote: But...that documentary! What the hell is that? Before last week I knew nothing about KM other than that he was a director. Japanese. No longer amongst the living. After sitting through an exasperating 2 1/2 hours I learned that he used a urine bottle on the set, was married, and made a lot of films. Easily one of the worst documentaries of a film maker i have ever seen. I spent the last hour imitating the interviewers obnoxious grunting sounds....what's up with that?
I have just finished watching this and though I try hard not to be negative on this forum this makes it very difficult. I didn't get Mizoguchi the director either, not even Mizoguchi, man and director. There were two (?) clips from his films in the whole documentary... (I did get confirmation that he was a Nichiren Buddhist but I had to sit through most of the 150 minutes to get even that.) I think it is a clear choice for any waverers to go for the MoC and get a Mizoguchi film on the second disc.

I see someone else touches on the grunting and how it is the custom and you could see it with the people he was interviewing. We have people like that here too; they are called Dundonians and their conversation quite often eliminates the words almost totally and it becomes a succession of

Eh, eh went and eh tred teh beh a peh, eh...
Eh?
Eh.
Eh.
Eh.
Eh...
(They are for all that the friendliest people in Scotland and live in a most beautifully located vertiginous city of which I have the most fantastical dreams.)

But I found his grunts quite fun after a while and passed some of the more tedious bits playing "grunt-along-a-Kaneto" and seeing if I could beat him to it... Then I remembered how old I am...

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HerrSchreck
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#149 Post by HerrSchreck » Wed May 28, 2008 5:23 pm

If we could get a good clip of those grunts set to music we could finally replace the tiresome Rickroll. The best substitute for the "eh" available now is at 00.43 (and around the minute mark) of helius' editing tour de force Deed It, taken from Eli Porters legendary and wonderful performance in the Classic Iron Mic Freestyle.

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Hopscotch
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#150 Post by Hopscotch » Wed May 28, 2008 6:59 pm

HerrSchreck wrote:If we could get a good clip of those grunts set to music we could finally replace the tiresome Rickroll. The best substitute for the "eh" available now is at 00.43 (and around the minute mark) of helius' editing tour de force Deed It, taken from Eli Porters legendary and wonderful performance in the Classic Iron Mic Freestyle.
That's one of the best remix videos of that video I've seen, and there are lots. Probably a million.

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