380 The Naked City

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denti alligator
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#26 Post by denti alligator » Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:27 am

Pinakotheca wrote:I'm surprised no one has replied to this. I'm getting my copy tomorrow, I'll let you know.
Thanks. Since DVD Planet ships really early these days, I got mine a week ago. The synch problem is mostly noticeable during the first 30 minutes or so, then disappears (I think), but reappears near the end again.

Napoleon
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#27 Post by Napoleon » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:24 am

The audio is occasionally a bit muffled as well as being occasionally out of sync.

At first I thought it may be due to the dialogue being added separately due to the location shooting, but it seems to affect the studio bound scenes as much as the external ones.

I don't think that it's a problem with the disk or a mistake by criterion, more likely the sound elements were badly degraded. The Devil & Daniel Webster suffers from similar problems.

Of course all this is surmising, so if anyone knows for sure what the issue is then fire away.

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HerrSchreck
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#28 Post by HerrSchreck » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:28 am

If someone wants to lay out the scenes in which it's most apparent, I'll go to my old vhs of it & tell you if it's there in the celluloid. I don't have the disc & it might be a while (emergency on BRUTE FORCE though despite knowing every line).

Napoleon
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#29 Post by Napoleon » Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:23 am

Sync is noticable throughout but to give you something to check; the scene where the detectives are in the murdered womans apartment and they discuss the sleeping pills. Particularly when the younger detective speaks to Muldoon.

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HerrSchreck
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#30 Post by HerrSchreck » Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:49 am

I actually cracked and bought this thing today. I haven't gotten to the film yet but will shortly (to check the synch thing w VHS).

But jesus x christ what a cheap pail of features. Luc Sante's idiotic piece in the booklet may be the most utterly worthless slop I've ever read, versus (with exeptions of course) CC's usualy quality. Dassin was and remained an erratic artist? It was his peculiar fate to be remembered for films which were least typical of him? And then this muddled whopper:

"(Dassin) could work within the strictures of urban documentary realism, as he does here in TNC at Hellingers request, but his own sensibility was operatic, antirealist, and over the top. His mark is most pronounced in the end sequence, a thrilling chase that is arguably the most memorable thing in the picture."... then 4 sentences later: "It's (the films) formal qualities are it's strong point."

First-- an erratic artist? Dassin warmed up with some functional melodramas (with some excellent avant short work like TELLTALE HEART at MGM) then unleashed a breathtaking unbroken string of masterpices one right after the other from 47-55: THE NAKED CITY, BRUTE FORCE, THIEVES HIGHWAY, NIGHT AND THE CITY.. by which time he was utterly destroyed by the blacklist in the US, yet persevered to make RIFIFI in 55. And one thing (except maybe NAKED, though its there if you look) that all these films have in common are Dassin's indelible personal stamp: an affection for the bad guy, a distaste for the bourgoisie, an empathy with the poor, plus an eye for searing mise en scene, and utterly gorgeous nose for composition and chiaroscuro. What the fuck films is Sante talking about that are MOST typical of Dassin which he is not remembered for. Buried in there is such a backhand insult, I can't believe CC allowed this dude to pinch five films in their collection from a man who is clearly one of their favorite directors.

Then, after establishing that Dassin's impulse is over the top & unrealistic, Luc says that he "could" work within the guidlelines of doc realism (allegedly via Hellengers iron hand) as we see in this film... then goes on to say the best sequence in this documentary realist film is the part where Dassin's mark can be most felt. Then says the best part of the film is it's formal qualities, and goes on to gently poo poo the trite procedural nature of the plot.

To miss the beauty of this film, it's innovation, its great sense of completeness despite its invention, is to be too firmly anchored into the present. Yes procedurals have become common. So is linear composition or atonality in music... this doesn't make Bartok or Stravinsky's RITE any less beautiful or astonishing for their sense of invention & originality today.

Then there's that discussion about the "locations" in the film. This dude and his tittering about bridges: if anyone knows what the hell this man is talking about about bridges and what they "do" and what they "mean" and HOLY CANOLI! The guy seems to get very greasy & funny looking towards the end of that run about bridges like "ok I just talked myself down a long green 11th grade alley-- I trusted myself to go off script and I turned a corner in my head and instead of sounding like a college professor who Knows Things, suddenly I was... not aware of what I was saying... felt like i was in front of my father calling me Stoopit... do other people expose their own lack of perfection this acutely while cameras are rolling...? well at least they can edit it out... waitaminnit.!!!.. no one seems to be looking at me funny! It WORKED!"

Either that or they just needed to get th disc out quick! Whereas the BOUDOU extra about the city locations was absolutely brilliant, this one is utterly absurd.

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#31 Post by Narshty » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:31 am

I agree with every word, Schreck (the offending article is here). For Sante to essentially say most of the good stuff in the film was nicked from elsewhere, and then not to list Thieves' Highway, his best film, among Dassin's "several important crime pictures" is a joke.

Dassin's straight run of five movies from Brute Force to Rififi that are now (praise be) Criterions is one of the most startling feats in film history and they encompass everything that makes film noir great in the first place. I can think of few similar achievements to top it - only Powell & Pressburger's run from Colonel Blimp to The Red Shoes springs readily to mind for eclecticism of subject matter, a total mastery of tone and technique and a brilliant unity of vision.

While The Naked City is probably the weakest, this is only in strictly relative terms (the film's pleasures and fascinations are nonetheless immense), and I suspect has mostly to do with the extensive recutting the film underwent from Dassin's original version. Is this issue addressed on the disc at all?

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#32 Post by John Hodson » Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:01 am

I've only watched the film not the extras so I don't know if the recutting issue has been addressed; the only cut that seemed obvious to me was when the crazy woman 'solves' the case the case for Muldoon. It's clear that he gives her money, but all we see is the hint that she wants a reward, and then a jump to when she smiles and snaps her purse shut having been handed a bill that we don't actually see. Odd.

As for synch, no issues that bother this viewer; what we have is sound sometimes a little ropily recorded on location or post synched. I think I spotted a couple of instances of lines being altered or added in post-dub, but nothing as I say, that left me irked. Great film; great presentation (window boxing aside)

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HerrSchreck
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#33 Post by HerrSchreck » Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:42 pm

Yeah, the film seems completely normal to me-- I didn't even bother comparing to the VHS because nothing even caught my attention. What pops in here & there is wht Hodson is mentioning above, i e the usual post synching of dubbing. The film is fine and looks excellent.

I haven't gotten to the commentary yet so I can't testify to whether or not they address the heavy cutting of Dassin's orig version.

But you know that "Foootage of Dassin At LACMA"? You know what screening has ended, to begin a q&a? RIFIFI! It has nothing to do with THE NAKED CITY. It's deceptive, the way it's listed on the "extras"-- you think he's there to answer questions about TNC.

I still hafta listen to the commentary but I'm close to feeling like this disc is an overpriced rush-job.

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skuhn8
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#34 Post by skuhn8 » Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:56 pm

HerrSchreck wrote:Yeah, the film seems completely normal to me-- I didn't even bother comparing to the VHS because nothing even caught my attention. What pops in here & there is wht Hodson is mentioning above, i e the usual post synching of dubbing. The film is fine and looks excellent.

I haven't gotten to the commentary yet so I can't testify to whether or not they address the heavy cutting of Dassin's orig version.

But you know that "Foootage of Dassin At LACMA"? You know what screening has ended, to begin a q&a? RIFIFI! It has nothing to do with THE NAKED CITY. It's deceptive, the way it's listed on the "extras"-- you think he's there to answer questions about TNC.

I still hafta listen to the commentary but I'm close to feeling like this disc is an overpriced rush-job.
Overpriced? Then a perfect companion for the egregious Brute Force 'Fox Noir' + booklet package for 3X the price. I'm happy to see Dassin come to DVD...but I really wish Fox had held onto these. Why pay more? If the CC can't add significantly to the package then they should really back off...unless its a case of a studio neglecting to release a title altogether. But honestly, do you think that Fox would blow off Dassin, the master, if the CC didn't get into negotiations? I don't think so.

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souvenir
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#35 Post by souvenir » Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:12 pm

Wrong Dassin films skuhn. Brute Force and The Naked City were made for Universal and originally released on DVD by Image before going out of print. Thieves' Highway and Night and the City were the Fox Dassin titles.

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HerrSchreck
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#36 Post by HerrSchreck » Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:17 pm

Let me clarify why I think it's overpriced: the extras seem to really suck. If the extras were up to usual CC speed (like the THVS HWY & NT AND CITY) I'd gladly fork out (already did) for these without regret.

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John Hodson
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#37 Post by John Hodson » Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:17 pm

HerrSchreck wrote:Let me clarify why I think it's overpriced: the extras seem to really suck. If the extras were up to usual CC speed (like the THVS HWY & NT AND CITY) I'd gladly fork out (already did) for these without regret.
This kind of thing has probably been mentioned many times before, but I paid (in Pounds Sterling) nearly £20 for my first DVD seven years ago or so, and I paid under £14 for The Naked City. I know Universal would have punted this out on a barebones disc at just over a third of that, and may or may not have matched the transfer quality, but in real terms, just how expensive is it?

And I accept, and agree with to a point, the issue about the extras. The bizarre thing is, I paid exactly the same amount for Bicycle Thieves, which in overall presentation terms is far superior.

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Ashirg
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#38 Post by Ashirg » Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:30 pm

Just to clarify, Universal doesn't own The Naked City anymore.

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skuhn8
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#39 Post by skuhn8 » Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:35 pm

souvenir wrote:Wrong Dassin films skuhn. Brute Force and The Naked City were made for Universal and originally released on DVD by Image before going out of print. Thieves' Highway and Night and the City were the Fox Dassin titles.
My bad. I assumed all four titles were Fox.

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foggy eyes
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#40 Post by foggy eyes » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:43 pm

skuhn8 wrote:Overpriced? Then a perfect companion for the egregious Brute Force 'Fox Noir' + booklet package for 3X the price. I'm happy to see Dassin come to DVD...but I really wish Fox had held onto these. Why pay more?
Just in case it has been overlooked, Thieves' Highway has been released by Fox in the UK. It's dead cheap, and the transfer is R1 Fox noir standard.

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#41 Post by Belmondo » Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:29 pm

Time for a second opinion? The extras here may not be among Criterion's best, but I found them interesting and informative. NYU film professor Dana Polan seems to lack a bit of confidence in his own delivery, but he provides worthwhile information on the police procedural versus film noir versus neorealism issue and makes the correct conclusion that NAKED CITY is meant to reassure in a way that BRUTE FORCE is meant to challenge. Serious crime exists, but the other eight million stories may be a bit more benign, and no threat to the social order. Architect and author James Sanders does even better and gives us much more than a mere discussion of locales and bridges - he shows us that this film captured New York City as it had existed for almost a hundred years, right up to the late 1940's; before television and a post-war building boom changed it forever. This is good stuff and worth a listen. End of second opinion.

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souvenir
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#42 Post by souvenir » Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:21 am

Belmondo wrote:Time for a second opinion? The extras here may not be among Criterion's best, but I found them interesting and informative.
I'll second your second opinion. I liked the locations interview, though, like Schreck, it starts teetering out of gear for me when the guy goes on about movement and the bridge. Dana Polan's interview is likewise interesting, if a little repetitive and dry at times.

I was initially hesitant about the Dassin at LACMA feature because of the static focus on a fidgety Dassin and the terrible audio, but I eventually understood why Criterion included it. I just wish someone with better A/V skills had been around to do a decent job with the recording. Since it took place in 2004 I'm not sure why Criterion wouldn't have sent someone out there themselves. Still worthwhile though, and, despite it following a screening of Rififi, the interview covers much of his career including The Naked City.

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Fletch F. Fletch
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#43 Post by Fletch F. Fletch » Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:18 pm

I just watched this movie. What I liked about it was the matter-of-factness of how the murder investigation is presented. The way Muldoon and his fellow detectives inspect the crime scene and speak to the witnesses clearly anticipates the police procedural portion of Law & Order and even shades of Sidney Lumet's police movies. Both seem to share a similar approach: shedding light on the machinations of the city's legal system.

I also like how The Naked City eschews Hollywood-style action for an emphasis on legwork and paperwork. We see Muldoon sift through false leads and a crazy man claiming to be the murderer. It's not very glamorous but I get the feeling that the film is trying to impart a certain nobility to what he does.

This film is also a fantastic snapshot of the city in the late 1940s, a historical record of the times in some respects. Watching this movie, for me, was like going back in time to a New York City that no longer exists.

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Fletch F. Fletch
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#44 Post by Fletch F. Fletch » Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:14 am

Creative Screenwriting has a couple of articles written by the film's screenwriter Malvin Wald on their site:

How I Created the Police Procedural Genre Or Going Back to School

and

The Naked City: The Making of the Movie

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manicsounds
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#45 Post by manicsounds » Tue May 08, 2007 10:29 pm

Where's the theatrical trailer? It's listed on the back.......

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jorencain
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#46 Post by jorencain » Wed May 09, 2007 7:47 am

manicsounds wrote:Where's the theatrical trailer? It's listed on the back.......
I was wondering the same thing.

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Tribe
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#47 Post by Tribe » Sat May 12, 2007 1:07 pm

From tomorrow's New York Times:

[quote]May 13, 2007
Film
Moyduh, He Watched: Commissioner Turns Critic
By MICHAEL WILSON

THERE were eight million stories in the Naked City, but somebody's had to end first, and so went poor Jean Dexter, blonde and beautiful, choked and doped and drowned in the bathtub of her Upper West Side apartment by a couple of mugs in suits and leather gloves.

Her murder opened the 1948 film “The Naked City,â€

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#48 Post by Antoine Doinel » Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:38 pm


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exte
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Re:

#49 Post by exte » Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:19 pm

Fletch F. Fletch wrote:Creative Screenwriting has a couple of articles written by the film's screenwriter Malvin Wald on their site:

How I Created the Police Procedural Genre Or Going Back to School

and

The Naked City: The Making of the Movie
A new link

Jonathan S
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Re: 380 The Naked City

#50 Post by Jonathan S » Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:51 am

In Criterion's booklet Luc Sante writes, "The Naked City was not a great success, either critically or financially..."

In the BFI's booklet for Dassin's Night and the City, Lee Server writes, "[The Naked City] was a massive critical and box office success..."

Discuss.

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