Second Sight Films (UK)
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: Worthing
- Contact:
I've just received dual-layer checkdiscs of Losey's Don Giovanni, and while I'm saving the full experience for when I can play them on a system that can handle DTS 96/24, I can already confirm that it looks like a blinding transfer - anamorphic, framed at the correct 1.66:1 aspect ratio, and seemingly blemish-free.
I was a little concerned about the fact that it was a PAL transfer, as this opera is rather famous for being in D minor, and the old VHS effectively retuned it up a semitone, to the disgust of a Gramophone critic, who blamed the conductor (full marks for spotting the problem, but clearly he knew nothing of PAL speedup issues!).
However, I'm delighted to confirm that the two new soundtracks - one that replicates the original Dolby Surround configuration, and the new DTS mix - have been pitch-shifted so that the film remains in the correct key. And I can be 100% certain of this, because they haven't pitch-shifted the third track (featuring the original 1979 Dolby mix), as will become obvious if you try switching soundtracks on the fly!
Purists shouldn't be alarmed, though - the 40-minute documentary on the soundtrack includes some vitriolic letters from Losey about how much he hated the original Dolby Stereo mix, and it seems that the new version is far closer to what he wanted, but couldn't achieve with the technology of the time.
UPDATE: I watched the soundtrack documentary in full last night, and it raises several questions about authenticity and authorship.
What is beyond doubt (the documentary includes several copies of signed letters of complaint) is that Losey and the singers hated the original mix. Quite apart from some specific technical problems to do with the recording technique used to capture the recitatives (which Losey shot live) turning out to be incompatible with the Dolby Stereo process, there was a constant battle between Losey and his partners at CBS over how best to mix the soundtrack. These issues were never satisfactorily resolved, and the original 1979 release version is consequently badly flawed.
So when the DVD was assembled, Jean-Louis Ducarmé, a trained musician who had worked on the original sound mix with Losey, managed to track down the original sixteen-track master recording as well as the other mastering materials (not without considerable difficulty: the first part of the documentary is something of a detective story), and used that as the basis of two new mixes - one of which replicated the speaker arrangement of the original Dolby Stereo but which was able to iron out the original technical problems (modern digital recordings can have separate soundtracks, so the phasing issues that bedevilled the original were no longer an issue), the other being a six-channel DTS mix at 96 kHz and 24 bits.
Assuming you have the necessary equipment, the latter is so spectacular that switching to it from one of the other tracks on the fly is like removing earplugs: the level of detail is just phenomenal (the film had to be split across two discs to accommodate the sound, but the break is between acts, so hardly a chore). The improvements between the old and new Dolby Surround mix are subtler, as one would hope (aside from the old mix not being pitch-corrected, so switching tracks effectively retunes the opera to E flat minor), but there's ample evidence that Ducarmé was acting in Losey's best interests.
We'll never know for certain, of course - but as the disc has the original soundtrack too, people can make up their own minds.
I was a little concerned about the fact that it was a PAL transfer, as this opera is rather famous for being in D minor, and the old VHS effectively retuned it up a semitone, to the disgust of a Gramophone critic, who blamed the conductor (full marks for spotting the problem, but clearly he knew nothing of PAL speedup issues!).
However, I'm delighted to confirm that the two new soundtracks - one that replicates the original Dolby Surround configuration, and the new DTS mix - have been pitch-shifted so that the film remains in the correct key. And I can be 100% certain of this, because they haven't pitch-shifted the third track (featuring the original 1979 Dolby mix), as will become obvious if you try switching soundtracks on the fly!
Purists shouldn't be alarmed, though - the 40-minute documentary on the soundtrack includes some vitriolic letters from Losey about how much he hated the original Dolby Stereo mix, and it seems that the new version is far closer to what he wanted, but couldn't achieve with the technology of the time.
UPDATE: I watched the soundtrack documentary in full last night, and it raises several questions about authenticity and authorship.
What is beyond doubt (the documentary includes several copies of signed letters of complaint) is that Losey and the singers hated the original mix. Quite apart from some specific technical problems to do with the recording technique used to capture the recitatives (which Losey shot live) turning out to be incompatible with the Dolby Stereo process, there was a constant battle between Losey and his partners at CBS over how best to mix the soundtrack. These issues were never satisfactorily resolved, and the original 1979 release version is consequently badly flawed.
So when the DVD was assembled, Jean-Louis Ducarmé, a trained musician who had worked on the original sound mix with Losey, managed to track down the original sixteen-track master recording as well as the other mastering materials (not without considerable difficulty: the first part of the documentary is something of a detective story), and used that as the basis of two new mixes - one of which replicated the speaker arrangement of the original Dolby Stereo but which was able to iron out the original technical problems (modern digital recordings can have separate soundtracks, so the phasing issues that bedevilled the original were no longer an issue), the other being a six-channel DTS mix at 96 kHz and 24 bits.
Assuming you have the necessary equipment, the latter is so spectacular that switching to it from one of the other tracks on the fly is like removing earplugs: the level of detail is just phenomenal (the film had to be split across two discs to accommodate the sound, but the break is between acts, so hardly a chore). The improvements between the old and new Dolby Surround mix are subtler, as one would hope (aside from the old mix not being pitch-corrected, so switching tracks effectively retunes the opera to E flat minor), but there's ample evidence that Ducarmé was acting in Losey's best interests.
We'll never know for certain, of course - but as the disc has the original soundtrack too, people can make up their own minds.
Last edited by MichaelB on Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: Worthing
- Contact:
DVD Talk says it's 2.35:1, Digitally Obsessed says it's 1.85:1. I saw it twice in the cinema and certainly don't recall it being in Scope, though it was a long time ago.Person wrote:I thought that this film was shot in 2.35:1 Panavision? Isn't the R1 DVD 2.35:1 anamorphic ?
On the other hand, there's absolutely no sign of any cropping in the 1.66:1 version on the Second Sight DVD - and for a film so meticulously composed, I imagine this would be obvious (quite apart from anything else, would they really get the picture so wrong after spending so much time and money on the sound?)
I'm assuming this DVDrama review is essentially of the same DVD as the Second Sight edition - and it's got frame grabs, so you can judge for yourself.
UPDATE: The French review says the transfer was supervised by the original DoP Gerry Fisher - so I think that clinches it!
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: Worthing
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I suspect that's how it would have been shown in US cinemas - as Stanley Kubrick discovered a few years earlier when he tried to get Barry Lyndon shown in the correct 1.66:1, most can't show anything narrower than that.tryavna wrote:The R1 is definitely 1.85:1.
And I see the IMDB is claiming that it's 2.35:1 too! Oh well, no change there - I've lost count of the number of times they get aspect ratios wrong. And I've just submitted corrections, with supporting evidence.
- Person
- Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 3:00 pm
I have never seen the film, so I always just went with the IMDb, which also lists it as Panavision @ 2.35:1 - which I will now alter to 1.66:1 .
I have deep admiration for cinematographer, Gerry Fisher. His colour work is among the very best I have ever seen. He wasn't afraid of the dark, loved deep focus and expressive angles. It was a shame he retired ten years ago. I'd love to see a legit DVD of Interlude (1968).
Thanks for the link to DVD Rama. Fisher's style is immediately recognisable to me. But what happened to the UK DVD of Losey's A Doll's House, also shot by Fisher? An anamorphic DVD of The Romantic Englishwoman would also be sweet; not a favourite film of mine, but there are about four gorgeously lit set-ups in it that blow me away.
I have deep admiration for cinematographer, Gerry Fisher. His colour work is among the very best I have ever seen. He wasn't afraid of the dark, loved deep focus and expressive angles. It was a shame he retired ten years ago. I'd love to see a legit DVD of Interlude (1968).
Thanks for the link to DVD Rama. Fisher's style is immediately recognisable to me. But what happened to the UK DVD of Losey's A Doll's House, also shot by Fisher? An anamorphic DVD of The Romantic Englishwoman would also be sweet; not a favourite film of mine, but there are about four gorgeously lit set-ups in it that blow me away.
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: Worthing
- Contact:
- Person
- Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 3:00 pm
How very dare you! I'm the king of correcting the technical specs sections at IMDb! Hundreds and hundreds have I done!MichaelB wrote:I've done it already!Person wrote:I have never seen the film, so I always just went with the IMDb, which also lists it as Panavision @ 2.35:1 - which I will now alter to 1.66:1 .
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- Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:39 am
Just received a shipping confirmation that my copy has been shipped.Person wrote:But what happened to the UK DVD of Losey's A Doll's House, also shot by Fisher?
Person wrote:An anamorphic DVD of The Romantic Englishwoman would also be sweet; not a favourite film of mine, but there are about four gorgeously lit set-ups in it that blow me away.
Isn't there a Dutch DVD of this which is anamorphic? I wonder how's the just released UK disc... same transfer than the earlier one?
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: Worthing
- Contact:
I've just watched Second Sight's Burnt by the Sun - a perfectly decent 1.66:1 anamorphic transfer with optional subtitles, but the disc is otherwise barebones.
The only peculiarity worth mentioning is that the opening title sequence seems to have been spliced in from a French print, complete with burned-in French subtitles over the title song! I also felt that the colours weren't quite as burnished as I remember from the original theatrical release - there seems to have been some mild fading along the line.
But, all in all, it's a more than acceptable disc which (going from reviews) seems to be a distinct cut above the non-anamorphic, apparently grainy R1 edition.
The only peculiarity worth mentioning is that the opening title sequence seems to have been spliced in from a French print, complete with burned-in French subtitles over the title song! I also felt that the colours weren't quite as burnished as I remember from the original theatrical release - there seems to have been some mild fading along the line.
But, all in all, it's a more than acceptable disc which (going from reviews) seems to be a distinct cut above the non-anamorphic, apparently grainy R1 edition.
- John Hodson
- Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:25 pm
- Location: Near dark satanic mills...
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- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
sweet, especially since it seems like Criterion is never going to get around to re-releasing thisJohn Hodson wrote:Second Sight is to release a 3-disc set of 'Picnic at Hanging Rock' in June with most of the extras from the R4 set, deleted scenes, the director's cut PLUS the original theatrical version.
- colinr0380
- Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
- Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK
Okay - what are they leaving out?John Hodson wrote:Second Sight is to release a 3-disc set of 'Picnic at Hanging Rock' in June with most of the extras from the R4 set, deleted scenes, the director's cut PLUS the original theatrical version.
(I'm happy at the announcement as well but have more of a 'glass half empty' perception! )
- John Hodson
- Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:25 pm
- Location: Near dark satanic mills...
- Contact:
This is as much as I know; it doesn't list all the extras of the R4 as I understand them, but they may surprise us.
- John Hodson
- Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:25 pm
- Location: Near dark satanic mills...
- Contact:
It's a little astonishing - taking Second Sight at their word - that it appears that decent elements of the original theatrical cut are so rare. And when they find an 'archive master', it's cropped?Rsdio wrote:Full details and artwork here. Fantastic news, hopefully this will be definitive.
- Awesome Welles
- Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:02 am
- Location: London
Second Sight's websiteseems to be in better shape these days (though annoyingly it only features discs coming soon), they have La Ronde and Caught up on the site now with release dates of 4th August. I guess they'll be praying these don't appear in the CC box!
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
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- Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:21 am
For sure Caught won't be CC. It'll either be in the next WB Noir set, or, in dreamland, that long-awaited Robert Ryan Signature Collection.
I can't get the website to work, but does it say for sure that it is Ophuls' La Ronde and not Vadim's? Obviously, it makes sense, with Caught being released as well, but you never know.
I can't get the website to work, but does it say for sure that it is Ophuls' La Ronde and not Vadim's? Obviously, it makes sense, with Caught being released as well, but you never know.
- Ashirg
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:10 am
- Location: Atlanta
It's part of Max Ophuls Collection.MadJack wrote:I can't get the website to work, but does it say for sure that it is Ophuls' La Ronde and not Vadim's? Obviously, it makes sense, with Caught being released as well, but you never know.
Extras for La Ronde:
- ‘Circles of Desire’ Alan Williams on Max Ophuls’ La Ronde
- Commentary by Susan White, author of ‘The Cinema of Max Ophuls’
- Photo gallery
Extras for Caught:
- Commentary by Lutz Bacher, author of ‘Max Ophuls in the Hollywood Studios’
- ‘UNCAUGHT’ by film historian Tag Gallagher
- PHOTO GALLERY