Optimum: The Luis Buñuel Collection

[brunosh]

Can anyone comment on the quality of the Studio Canal 'Tristana' (compared to bfi), ' The Young One' and 'Death in the Garden', ports of which (presumably) are coming to UK R2 in Jan 2007 from Optimum in their Bunuel box, as reported (at secondhand) in the dvdtimes forums?

Also said to be in the box set are Belle de Jour, Discreet Charm, Obscure Object of Desire, Phantom of Liberty, Milky Way and Diary of a Chambermaid - presumably these will be not a million miles away from the versions in the R2 3-packs recently withdrawn. Darn it, I've got those films from criterion or a 3-pack, and from the boxset only Belle de Jour is mentioned as tba separately.

Bunuel Boxset, Luis (8 discs)

Belle de Jour - 40th Anniversary

[mario gauci]

Given that Luis Bunuel is my favorite film director - or, if you like, the one I consider the greatest - I nearly fell off my chair after reading Gordon's post...in spite of the fact that I already own all the Bunuel Criterions (and had also previously purchased them all on PAL VHS)! But with all those supplements and at that reasonable price, how can I not be duped into purchasing yet again movies I already have in my collection 8-)?

I'd like to ask about DEATH IN THE GARDEN (1956), however: since this one isn't in the Box Set, has this been cancelled or was it never officially announced anywhere? For the record, I still haven't gotten hold of the two latest Bunuel DVDs from Yume because of their hefty price tag. Does anybody know if the Yume catalogue gets discounted during one of those ongoing "World Cinema" offers from Play.com, Bensonsworld, HMV, etc.

After some more browsing, I found that Discreet Charm will also have a 26-minute doc (which was omitted in the Optimum link)...

Also, 5 of Bunuel's Mexican films are being released as a Box Set from Gaumont in France next January.

Hopefully, the latter will be in their original Spanish-language versions and will carry English subtitles.

[MichaelB]

I also see that my uncle Peter William Evans has recorded a commentary for Belle de Jour, so I'll probably have to buy this one out of solidarity, even though I have the older Canal box set.

I've got no idea what he's like as a DVD commentator, but he's had decades of teaching experience and what he doesn't know about Spanish cinema in general and Bunuel in particular frankly isn't worth knowing, so he's certainly amply qualified on paper.

(Visits to his house are a frustrating experience, though - I don't speak Spanish, so his vast library of Bunueliana is largely off limits!)

[Lino]

That Buñuel set looks very tasty. Each film comes with a documentary, a trailer and in some cases an interview as well.

This looks to be a keeper for those who haven't yet bought any Criterion edition of his films.

Bunuel Boxset, Luis (8 discs)

Belle de Jour - 40th Anniversary

Great price too!

And if the Studio Canal transfers and extras are anything to come by, judging from these 3 reviews (1 - 2 - 3) we are in for a treat since practically every one of them exceeds the current Criterions in terms of extras and A/V presentation (apart from The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie).

The only glaring problem to be found in those french sets is the transfer for Tristana which is not anamorphic and looks way too dirty and muted. Hopefully, Optimum will improve on that one too seeing as they announce it as anamorphic. Maybe they struck a new negative somewhere?

DVDTimes announces the Belle De Jour Special Edition here. Oh, and isn't that cover design's all over the place? I do hope that the boxset's looks better. See it for yourselves.

Oh, I forgot to mention that the only film not to be ported from those 3 french editions onto the upcoming Optimum one is Grand Casino. Maybe on an eventual Volume 2?

[mario gauci]

As a London resident, I console myself with the news that it can be seen at the NFT Bunuel season in January 2007.

Brunosh,

Do you have more info about that NFT Bunuel season in January you mention? I checked the BFI site but, so far, zilch!

I've been a member of the NFT off and on for the past 7 years and have visited the NFT regularly on my visits to London in 1999 and 2002 and have attended several screenings from their Erich von Stroheim, Alfred Hitchcock and Kon Ichikawa retrospectives held during those years.

Therefore, since Bunuel is my all-time favorite director, I'd love to be able to spend at least a fortnight over there in January...

[Cinéslob]

I'll take the liberty of stepping in here: the NFT season next year is going to show, I believe, every Buñuel feature, spread across January and February. January has everything from Un chien andalou through to La Mort en ce jardin with the exception of Los Olvidados, which is showing in February. Simon of the Desert and Belle de Jour are also showing in January, with everything else left to February. What with having this near perfect Buñuel retrospective running concurrently with their Norman McLaren, Bogart-Bacall, Terence Davies, quota quickies, Chinese animation and (intriguing) 'Out of the Shadows' seasons early next year, the NFT are dangerously close to both spoiling rotten and bankrupting many a cinephile of London.

[MichaelB]

Indeed, and I'm going to have to be utterly ruthless and restrict my viewing to the Buñuel films I haven't seen yet.

Mind you, I said I'd do that with the Bresson retrospective in 1999, and ended up seeing all but one (and I'd worked on a reissue of Lancelot du Lac, so it's not as though that was a grievous omission).

[brunosh]

Mauro - The January NFT dates are as follows: Un Chien Andalou/L'Age d'Or (Jan 1, 2, 9, 13, 21 and 23), Las Hurdes/Simon of the Desert (2, 11), Gran Casino (4, 10), Great Madcap (4, 13); Susana (5, 10), Daughter of Deceit (6, 19), Mexican Bus Ride (6, 18), A Woman Without Love (7, 15), Robinson Crusoe (7, 15), El (11, 20), El Bruto (12, 27), Wuthering Heights (14, 23), Runaway Streetcar (20, 26), River and Death (21, 27), Criminal Life of Archibaldo de la Cruz (28, 29), Cela s'appelle l'aurore (26, 28), La Mort en ce jardin (28, 29), Belle de Jour (Dec 29-30, Jan 1-18 inclusive - on Jan 5, Juan Luis Bunuel will be on stage in conversation after the 18:20 screening on Jan 5), 1984 BBC documentary (3, 17). Booking: for members by post from Dec 6; online from Dec 15. As others have said, part 2 will be in February.

(Mods: sorry this is off topic - feel free to move it!)

[mario gauci]

Thanks a lot, Brunosh.

Right now, it's looking like I ought to go to London between the 15th and the 28 of January which would enable me to catch 7 first-time viewings, the BBC documentary and 8 other Bunuels. I'd be missing out on 2 more films I haven't watched - GRAN CASINO (1947) and THE GREAT MADCAP (1949) - but, since they are available on DVD, it's no great loss.

I'd love to be present at the 5th January screening of BELLE DE JOUR (1967) since Juan Luis Bunuel himself is slated to attend but there is no guarantee that he'll be attending - after all, Kevin Brownlow was supposed to be in attendance during a September 2002 screening of Erich von Stroheim's THE WEDDING MARCH (1928)! - or that I'd be able to meet him in person.

It's too bad that I wouldn't be able to watch Bunuel's greatest films (those from his 1961-1977 period) on the big screen but, unless somebody like Jean-Claude Carriere is persuaded to come and chat with the NFT members during one of the screenings, I can live with that!

[MichaelB]

It's too bad that I wouldn't be able to watch Bunuel's greatest films (those from his 1961-1977 period) on the big screen but, unless somebody like Jean-Claude Carriere is persuaded to come and chat with the NFT members during one of the screenings, I can live with that!

And also they're considerably less rare - I've seen pretty much everything from Viridiana onwards on the big screen several times since the late 1980s, and have had plenty of opportunities to see them even more often.

By contrast, the last time most of the Mexican films played in London was at the time of the NFT's last Buñuel retrospective, over twenty years ago.

[vogler]

Does anyone have any thoughts on whether the subtitles on the umpcoming Bunuel box will be removable or burnt in? I have both of the now oop Warner sets and the subs for all the films were burnt in. I believe some other recent releases from Optimum have had burnt in subs as well (although I'm not sure). I'm wondering what Studio Canal's position on this matter is and if their policy in the past has been to insist on burnt in subs hence this approach being taken on the Warner boxes. All of this is pure speculation though and I would be interested to hear if anyone knows with more certainty what the the truth of the matter is.

I'm also wondering if people think that the upcoming Optimum set will definitely be an improvement on the Warners. If so I think I will sell my Warner sets as soon as possible. I have pre-ordered the Optimum set anyway since it contains La Joven and what will surely be a better version of Tristana. That raises another question; the BFI dvd had two versions of the film, Spanish and French. I wonder which version will be on the Optimum dvd (the Spanish I would hope).

[Lino]

Vogler, look up a few posts for some links I did to some reviews of the french Studio Canal discs. As you'll see, the upcoming Optimum set is going to be a direct port of these discs, sans Gran Casino in it, with major improvements on both audio and video with some very worthwhile extras thrown into the mix as well. One other major difference is the audio commentary on Belle de Jour that is going to be in english as opposed to the french one on the french disc.

As for the burnt-in subs, well, I can only speculate that they will in fact be fixed and not burnt-in. But they can also be optional, who knows. We will only be sure of this when the reviews start pouring in.

Tristana, on the other hand is for me the only problematic title on the set for several reasons, first one being that it was not anamorphic on the french Studio Canal set. Optimum state in their press release that this title will also benefit from the widescreen 16:9 treatment. We'll see. And as for the language offered, the only one available on the french release was french but since they got the rights in the UK now, maybe Optimum will also license the spanish dub as well. Fingers crossed.

But ultimately, I'm with you. I'm buying this set no matter what. I'm actually very excited about it!

DVDManiacs reviews the new edition of Belle de Jour and it's everything you'd hope it would be. Thankfully and finally a good english-friendly version of this baby!

[vogler]

Vogler, look up a few posts for some links I did to some reviews of the french Studio Canal discs.

Thanks, I completely missed those links. Looks very good and my preorder was definitely the right decision. I think my Warners are going on ebay shortly. With a bit of luck they should easily cover the cost of this set. I really hope we don't get burnt in subs but I can live with it if we do. I can usually find ways around player generated forced subs.

I looked at your links to the covers a while ago as well. You are absolutely right about the Belle de Jour cover - it truly is grotesque. Actually I'm surprised it hasn't made it to the 'worst dvd cover art ever' thread yet.

And as for the language offered, the only one available on the french release was french but since they got the rights in the UK now, maybe Optimum will also license the spanish dub as well. Fingers crossed.

I really hope that the Spanish audio is on the dvd; it's such a Spanish film that it seems very odd to me listening to the French. If forced to choose I would rather opt for the dubbing of Catherine Deneuve rather than Fernando Rey.

[GringoTex]

DVDManiacs reviews the new edition of Belle de Jour and it's everything you'd hope it would be. Thankfully and finally a good english-friendly version of this baby!

Great. I'm most curious the quality of the Tristana transfer.

[vogler]

Great. I'm most curious the quality of the Tristana transfer.

I'll know in a few days - my Bunuel box set was shipped today. I'll report back when it arrives. I'm really hoping that Tristana has the Spanish audio, I find it very odd watching this film in French. Hopefully La Joven (The Young One) will be better quality than the existing dvd (not that it's particularly bad). It's a great film and one of the most underrated in Bunuel's entire career (as well as some of the Mexican films). Perhaps that will change with the release of this box set.

The Bunuel box set arrived today which was much sooner than I expected. There are good points and very very bad points. One very good point is that the subtitles are removable - a very large step up from the burnt in Warner subs. I will post screen caps from all the films soon in the screen caps thread (except for Belle de Jour because the damn disc won't play in my dvd drive - probably the fault of the dvd drive, it's a piece of crap and does this sometimes). I'll try it in another player when I get a chance. Generally the transfers are very good and I think some of them might be exactly the same as the Warner box sets. The Milky Way, for example, has the same jagged line at the top of the frame that the Warner dvd had.

My first impressions of Tristana are that it looks like shit and there is a strange wavering line at the top of the screen (analogue source?). In addition it only features the French soundtrack which, for me, makes this totally unwatchable. I find it totally destroys the mood of the film which is so Spanish. I can't watch Fernando Rey dubbed in French. Looks like I'll be sticking with the BFI dvd.

The Young One looks very good. I think the transfer is Better than the already existing dvd, although I have only seen it a couple of times and don't own it myself. Can anyone confirm what aspect ratio this film should be though? I seem to remember the other dvd being academy ratio but this one is widescreen - check the screen caps thread shortly to see for yourself.

The biggest problem of the set is with That Obscure Object of Desire. The original audio was mono wasn't it? Here we have some bizarre kind of 'stereo' mix except for almost the entire duration of the film there is no sound whatsoever in the right channel. All the sound comes from the left channel with very occasional music in the right. What the hell is that about? The Optimum website says the audio should be mono for this film so I think they've made a big mistake whilst mastering the dvd. Perhaps there is a chance that it might just be my disc, although this seems very unlikely since there is some sound occasionally from the right channel. Does anyone else have this dvd yet to confirm whether they are experiencing this problem? If all these dvds have this sound mix then I think Optimum should recall the discs and fix the problem. I will email them shortly. So overall I'm not very happy (especially since I just sold the Warner box sets). Screen captures posted here.

Here is a comparison between an avi file of the The Young One (I don't know the source of this file) and the new Optimum dvd.

The Optimum dvd is first and the avi file is second.






So which one is more correct? Does anyone have the other dvd version to compare?

[Lino]

Hmm, there are clearly some problems with that set and I can't wait for Gary to start reviewing it and comparing it with other versions. It's a shame about Tristana but I was expecting it since the french edition is nothing to be proud of, either. Is it anamorphic, vogler?

However, overall this package is kind of worthwhile because it manages to offer 8 Buñuel films for roughly the price of 2 Criterions! And in better editions, on most of the cases. The Young One seems to suffer from the maddening matted/unmatted hellish case that I'm sure that even Sherlock Holmes wouldn't have managed to get to the bottom of. And that audio glitch on Obscure (...) really does sound irritating.

Have you got any reply back from Optimum?

[vogler]

It's a shame about Tristana but I was expecting it since the french edition is nothing to be proud of, either. Is it anamorphic, vogler?

It is anamorphic but to me it doesn't look any better than the BFI. It also doesn't feature the Spanish audio so the BFI is the winner as far as I'm concerned. Actually I didn't even know there was a French version until the BFI dvd was released.

However, overall this package is kind of worthwhile because it manages to offer 8 Buñuel films for roughly the price of 2 Criterions!

And that audio glitch on Obscure (...) really does sound irritating.

Have you got any reply back from Optimum?

No reply yet. If they sort out the audio on That Obscure Object then I'll be fairly happy with this set but at the moment it's not really acceptable. I don't understand how something like that can actually get released - you'd think they would at least check the discs before getting them manufactured.

[GringoTex]

Thanks, Vogler. A huge disappointment on Milky Way and Tristana, although I'll probbly still buy it for Belle de Jour and The Young One alone.

[vogler]

Thanks, Vogler. A huge disappointment on Milky Way and Tristana, although I'll probbly still buy it for Belle de Jour and The Young One alone.

Actually I'd say that The Milky Way is pretty good (as was the previous version on the Warner box set). The jagged line at the top of the frame that I mentioned is not really much of a big deal and not really all that noticeable if you are not looking for it. It's hard to describe but basically the boundary at the top of the frame has a very small step in it half way along. Perhaps this is what denti was talking about in this thread. I'm not sure.

[artfilmfan]

The jagged line at the top of the frame that I mentioned is not really much of a big deal and not really all that noticeable if you are not looking for it. It's hard to describe but basically the boundary at the top of the frame has a very small step in it half way along. Perhaps this is what denti was talking about in this thread. I'm not sure.

I often see this "step" at the top of the frame when I watch a movie on DVD presented in widescreen format on a "normal" (4:3) TV. It's annoying sometimes, but I've learned to live with it. I've often suspected that it's the DVD player that causes it. Don't ask me why though.

[vogler]

I often see this "step" at the top of the frame when I watch a movie on DVD presented in widescreen format on a "normal" (4:3) TV. It's annoying sometimes, but I've learned to live with it. I've often suspected that it's the DVD player that causes it. Don't ask me why though.

I don't know about other cases or even if this problem always has the same cause but in this instance it is part of the transfer. I am playing it on a PC. The issue is not with the boundary of the 16:9 video (I believe it would be impossible to have a step encoded in this and that the format dictates that this line must be straight), the step occurs because there is a small black line that is part of the actual image along the top left edge. The line stops about halfway across creating a step effect when viewed on a 4:3 monitor where the 16:9 image meets the black bar at the top. On a widescreen TV this would probably not be noticed at all.

I have noticed this on a few other dvds as well and in these cases it always seems to be simply an inconsistent or ragged frame boundary at the top of the image (but nothing to do with the edge of the 16:9 video image itself). I don't know if this is the same problem that other people are noticing though.

[MichaelB]

It is anamorphic but to me it doesn't look any better than the BFI. It also doesn't feature the Spanish audio so the BFI is the winner as far as I'm concerned. Actually I didn't even know there was a French version until the BFI dvd was released.

I certainly did! One language version was originally released in Britain 1970-71, but an early 1990s reissue saw the other language version coming into UK circulation for the first time. As a result, there were two prints sitting on the shelves of the Rank storage depot, and it was complete pot luck which one I was sent when I booked the film.

(The solution seems obvious: ask them to send a specific print - but these are people who regularly used to send me the remakes of 'The 39 Steps' and 'The Lady Vanishes' when I booked the Hitchcock versions, and the distinction there should have been rather more obvious!)

If they sort out the audio on That Obscure Object then I'll be fairly happy with this set but at the moment it's not really acceptable. I don't understand how something like that can actually get released - you'd think they would at least check the discs before getting them manufactured.

Well, I've got the Criterion Obscure Object and I don't have The Young One, The Phantom of Liberty or the new Belle de Jour (whose commentator I'm having lunch with in a week or so), so the current £32.99 price tag still seems worth it.

[vogler]

And I'm sick of hearing bad things about the Studio Canal Belle - it's fine, if not perfect. As were several of those older OOP Warner/SC releases, incl Journal. Never mind the fixed subs etc.

I had both the OOP Warner box sets and I was very happy with them. I wasn't particularly bothered about the fixed subs (although optional would have been nice). These sets served me well but I decided to take the risk of selling them when this box set was announced under the assumption that it would be an improvement in every area. Shit Shit Shit!

Many of the transfers appear to be the same as the Warner sets which is fine. Others have been improved (The Diary of a Chambermaid I think) and Tristana is dreadful. The main thing that annoys me is that I did have a perfectly good copy of That Obscure Object of Desire and now I don't. I'm also having the problem that 2 of the dvds (Belle de Jour & The Milky Way) won't play on my computer (which I always use as my main dvd player). It's likely that this is the fault of the dvd drive but probably around 99% of my dvds work fine on it. These dvds did work on the other player I tried. I think my dvd drive has a very low tolerance for even the very smallest of imperfections on the disc. This means that only 4 of these discs are of any use to me and I already had good copies of 3 of those anyway.

David, do you have any thoughts on the framing of The Young One? I have no idea which is correct or even if there is a definitive answer to this. The widescreen version appears to be wrong to me but this may just be because I am used to watching the full screen version. The transfer looks very nice.

[Lino]

Meanwhile this lot looks like shit.

Let's not be so harsh. I'll wait for Gary to get down on these and start comparing them. One thing this set has running for it is the extras -- carefully produced featurettes for ALL the films included and ALL come with the original theatrical trailer, which is always a plus with me.

The problem with Tristana is that no restored copy might yet be available and Optimum had to make do with what they were handed by Studio Canal. However, they improved on it by offering an anamorphic transfer which the french DVD did not have. The difference in resolution might not be that apparent but it's an improvement, nonetheless.

The biggest problem seems to be the Obscure (...) disc and I wonder if all the discs come with that audio problem with them or if it's just a first pressing type of case. It would be nice to hear back from Optimum about this.

But in the end, if all you are getting are 6 fine discs out of 8, I'm not the one complaining (too much, at least) because the price seems to be right. I'm still planning to buy this set but like I said, I'll wait for some DVDBeaver reviews and comparisons. I'll bet he'll have a field day with this!

DVDTimes reviews and visually compares the new edition of Belle de Jour with the OOP Warner one.

[Cobalt60]

I am really debating buying the Bunuel set as I am devout fan, however, it seems more and more that it is really not worth the money. From what I've gathered from previous posts most of the transfers pale when compared to either the Criterion release or the Studio Canal release. The optional rather then permanent subs is nice but I will probably never watch these films without subs. The big (and I mean 99%) selling point for me now are the docs or featurettes that are included with each title. Can anyone comment on the quality of these, are they thoughtful and informative/interesting or are they just 20+ plus minutes of Bio recap/"Bunuel is influential"/description of scenes type crap that I can do without?