Kino: F.W. Murnau films

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exte · #1 Post by **exte** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:35 am

How's this box? I read the review at Amazon, and the Last Laugh has the weakest transfer. But I haven't seen any of these Murnau films, save for Nosferatu. Would anyone suggest a blind buy on this? Thanks.

filmfan · #2 Post by **filmfan** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:53 am

What's included, who is the release company, and what are the specs, please ?

Caligula · #3 Post by **Caligula** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:13 am

From the http://www.deepdiscountdvd.com website:
Title: F W MURNAU COLLECTION (5D) (Kino)
Director:
Year: 0
Runtime: 532M
Rating: NR
Language: English
Closed Captioned: N
UPC: 73832903212
Item Number: KOV003212D
Special Features

DVD Features:

Notes:
Silent Films
Region [unknown]
5-Disc Boxed Set
Full Frame - 1.33
Disc 1 - NOSFERATU
Notes:
Color Tinted
Additional Release Material:
Excerpts from Six F.W. Murnau Films
Interactive Features:
Two Musical Scores
Text/Photo Galleries:
Photo/Art Gallery
Disc 2 - THE LAST LAUGH
Notes:
Black & White
Audio:
Digital Stereo - Score
Disc 3 - FAUST
Notes:
Black & White
Text/Photo Galleries:
Production Stills - "UFA Studios 1925: The Making of FAUST"
Disc 4 - TARTUFFE
Notes:
Color Tinted
Additional Release Material:
Documentary - "The Way to Murnau"
Disc 5 - TABU: A STORY OF THE SOUTH SEAS
Notes:
Black & White
Additional Release Material:
Commentary - 1. Janet Bergstrom - Professor
Outtake Footage
Theatrical Trailer

mbalson · #4 Post by **mbalson** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:27 am

I would hold off buying a set of this sort. Mostly because you simply are not going to get the best version of each film this way. Sure, right now Kino's Nosferatu is one of the best but some of the others already have better editions elsewhere. The Masters of Cinema releases (will) overlap these a fair amount and are clearly better with more recent restorations.

Narshty · #5 Post by **Narshty** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:35 am

Nosferatu is currently undergoing a bitching new restoration which will include German intertitles and the originally composed score. Personally, I'd hold off for now.

mbalson · #6 Post by **mbalson** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:28 am

Nosferatu is currently undergoing a bitching new restoration

If this is the case and it's released on a quality DVD then it looks like I will be buying yet another edition of this. Judging from other recently restored silents, it really isn't worth picking up a copy of a major film on DVD unless it has undergone a really current restoration. There are many examples of DVD presentations being eclipsed within the span of a few years due to modern restoration/transfer technology. I think it's a safe bet however that Kino will almost never be at the forefront of releasing restored films on DVD, but they aren't terrible either.
One should really get a multiregion player as almost all the best DVD releases of german silents are from Europe. Criterion almost always betters everyone else, but they really don't have a selection of classic silents happening.

What A Disgrace · #7 Post by **What A Disgrace** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:52 am

Narshty wrote:Nosferatu is currently undergoing a bitching new restoration which will include German intertitles and the originally composed score. Personally, I'd hold off for now.

Finally. I've been gritting my teeth in anticipation of such, and its finally happening.

Might this be a Masters of Cinema title, I wonder?

htdm · #8 Post by **htdm** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:16 pm

Narshty wrote:Nosferatu is currently undergoing a bitching new restoration

Lord save us all. Sure it is great that there is such interest in restoring (and restoring) this film but there are so many other deserving silent films that just languish in obscurity. (And yes I realize that high profile titles like Nosferatu, Caligari, Chaplin, etc. often pave the way for other restorations but still...) I think this is an area where MOC has been a breath of fresh air. For every restoration of familiar titles like Metropolis we have an Asphalt.

mbalson wrote:I think it's a safe bet however that Kino will almost never be at the forefront of releasing restored films on DVD, but they aren't terrible either.

No, but they're close. Quite a few of their titles really don't look much better than Madacy or Goodtimes bargin bin quality but they are sold at Criterion prices. IMO Kino would live up to their high reputation better if they took the time to:
a) properly transfer PAL masters to NTSC
b) put English subs on their non-silent titles (we don't all have perfect hearing you know)

That said, I think the thing I appreciate most about Kino isn't the quality of their discs but their guts. I mean, who else would have put out things like Sex in Chains? The Man Who Laughs? Manslaughter?

unclehulot · #9 Post by **unclehulot** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:30 pm

I understand the concern regarding video quality on Kino's videos at times, but they mostly boil down to poor PAL to NTSC conversion, when that is the source (all too often). Their NTSC transfers are on a par with other companies (Image, Milestone, Flicker Alley) trying to work with the best material they can within a certain budget. I can't understand the extra bit of venom often displayed toward one of the VERY few companies who work on these films we all want to see on video, but ALSO strike theatrical prints and distribute them! Milestone is another shining example of this. So, next time you diss them, think about some highly regarded video companies that DON'T work to this end, and keep their work only in the video domain.

denti alligator · #10 Post by **denti alligator** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:07 pm

Rufus T. Firefly wrote:
HerrSchreck wrote:What's the score with Flicker Alley's PHANTOM? Touted as "available Fall 05."
Delayed to Feb 06 due to some new extras which became available, according to Barrie Maxwell's column at The Digital Bits.

Before rushing to buy this we should be aware that this title might be one of MoC's upcoming Murnaus. Plus--since I'm riding my hobbyhorse today--Flicker Alley surely won't be including the original intertitles.

LightBulbFilm · #11 Post by **LightBulbFilm** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:18 am

I own the F.W. Murnau collection from Kino and in it is The Last Laugh. While watching it I noticed something. There is a scene where the doorman's neice pulls a cake out of the oven and writes, in icing "For the Wedding Guests", in English. Was this a Kino edit, or did Murnau film that in English for the US release? or.... what? Thanks for any answers in advance.

Ledos · #12 Post by **Ledos** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:04 pm

In the original German version it says "Den Hochzeitsgästen" but it looks as if the couple of short sequences featuring the text (first writing it, then the completed text) were made so they could easily be replaced for foreign language versions. Since one of the three negatives that was made during filming was specifically intended for the American market, it is very likely that an English language version of this sequence was made. Whether Kino uses such 'original, alternate' footage or their own edit I don't know.

justeleblanc · #13 Post by **justeleblanc** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:24 pm

Ledos wrote:In the original German version it says "Den Hochzeitsgästen" but it looks as if the couple of short sequences featuring the text (first writing it, then the completed text) were made so they could easily be replaced for foreign language versions. Since one of the three negatives that was made during filming was specifically intended for the American market, it is very likely that an English language version of this sequence was made. Whether Kino uses such 'original, alternate' footage or their own edit I don't know.

Um, Kino does not shoot their own footage.

Ledos · #14 Post by **Ledos** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:45 pm

No, but they regularly make changes of on-screen graphics that features non-English text. I don't have the Kino edition myself, but if we actually see the girl writing the text in English it is of course likely to be from the original English languaged take.

Gigi M. · #15 Post by **Gigi M.** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:01 pm

Another edition of Nosferatu appears on the horizon.

barnyard078 · #16 Post by **barnyard078** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:16 am

It sounds like the new Kino edition is going to be a watered-down version of the new MoC edition. This is what it says on the product description at Amazon:

A cornerstone of the horror film, F.W. Murnau s NOSFERATU is triumphantly reborn in this breathtaking new restoration by the F.W. Murnau Foundation. Backed by an orchestral performance of Hans Erdmann s 1922 score (recorded in 5.1 stereo surround), this Kino International edition presents Murnau s masterpiece with unprecedented clarity and faithfulness to the original release version. This double-disc collection presents the film with the original German intertitles as well as with newly-translated English intertitles. Accompanying the film is a 52-minute documentary by Luciano Berriatúa which provides a detailed account of the production and explores the filmmakers involvement in the occult.

So, it sounds like the MoC version, minus the commentary, the restoration demonstration, and the 96 page book. I'm assuming that it is the same documentary, because Kino's is 52 minutes and the MoC is 53 minutes. I am assuming that it is the same transfer, because Kino's is by the "F. W. Murnau Foundation", and MoC's is by the "F.W. Murnau-Stiftung". Both have the original score, Kino's being in 5.1 stereo surround. So, make what you will of all of that.

Tommaso · #17 Post by **Tommaso** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:38 am

It sounds like it's a straight port of the German Transit edition, which also only has the Berriatua documentary, some production notices, and apparently nothing else. Clearly MoC is the one to buy here. Good to see that Kino for once manage to retain the German intertitles, though. Have they finally started to listen to this forum?

HerrSchreck · #18 Post by **HerrSchreck** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:43 pm

Exactly. Any release of this, including the MoC, is going to be a result of the FWMS material (not MoC, who are not the source here & most probably licensing the FWMS digibeta like Kino).

Nice to see MoC going the extra mile and generating their own additional material at their own expense.

videozor · #19 Post by **videozor** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:28 pm

Looks like Kino is trying to put out "ultimate" (as they think) editions of some silent classics by placing an original movie on one disk and the same cut, but with English inter-titles - on the second. To me an English-intertitled version is an absolute filler. And if Nosferatu is once again a PAL to NTSC port, MoC edition will become the obvious first choice even for R1 residents.

Potjomkin is treated the same way. But though I suspect the new restoration again has European (German?) origin, I don't know about any edition based on this restoration issued (to be issued) in either Germany or UK. Does anybody have more information on Potjomkin?

Tommaso · #20 Post by **Tommaso** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:42 pm

Potemkin is out in Germany, and it's most excellent. I put some thoughts about it in theSilent Films thread.

Tribe · #21 Post by **Tribe** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:27 pm

videozor wrote:Looks like Kino is trying to put out "ultimate" (as they think) editions of some silent classics by placing an original movie on one disk and the same cut, but with English inter-titles - on the second. To me an English-intertitled version is an absolute filler. And if Nosferatu is once again a PAL to NTSC port, MoC edition will become the obvious first choice even for R1 residents.

Potjomkin is treated the same way. But though I suspect the new restoration again has European (German?) origin, I don't know about any edition based on this restoration issued (to be issued) in either Germany or UK. Does anybody have more information on Potjomkin?

Nick had a pretty good explanation:

peerpee wrote:I'm under the impression that Kino have licenced the new German restoration of POTEMKIN. Tartan have licenced the Ruscico edition.

The German restoration of POTEMKIN is, apparently, "the one" -- and I heard this was with the BFI in the UK.

I may be wrong, however. I had been hoping that Criterion would get the German version, and Kino would release what Tartan are releasing.

jbeall · #22 Post by **jbeall** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:46 pm

Anybody gotten word about the "definitive" Nosferatu that's coming on the 20th? I was really impressed with Kino's Dr. Mabuse the Gambler, and am hoping they'll do a similarly nice job on the Murnau film.

HerrSchreck · #23 Post by **HerrSchreck** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:51 am

(as posted on the MoC NOS thread):

I bumped into an early copy of Kino's release at Kims and even though I'll be grabbing the MoC I couldn't resist, impatient greedy ol' me.

And it is absolutely a new transfer, with loads of cleanup done and far more detail. Absolutely beautiful--

That said--

Kino has done a strange thing here: instead of interlacing the film to get it down to the correct projection speed (18fps I believe), they chose to progressively encode it, but add extra frames in every few frames to have it spool off mathematically correctly for the frame rate.

Translation-- seems they chose ghosting over the combing produced by interlacing as the lesser of two evils? Even switching my player to interlaced I could step thru the thing frame by frame without any duplications, and there was no interlaciing/combing to be found.

Odd.. but it does I guess make for much smoother curves and detail in the images versus the stepping and jaggs produced by the combing in an interlaced transfer.

Either way the MoC is going to be stunning no doubt-- this is a heckuva transfer guys. Even those who had one of the prev versions with theBologna resto don't know what's in store. Creaminyerpantsville!

HerrSchreck · #24 Post by **HerrSchreck** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:36 pm

DVDTalk review of NOSFERATU.

Video:

The video quality looks very, very good. The tinted full frame image has been restored in HD, and looks significantly better than the earlier Kino release. The level of detail is fine, and the contrast is very good. There are still some sections were the image will go out of focus for a second, such as when Orlok's carriage first appears as it comes to collect Hutter. This is presumably because they used inferior copies of the film to fill in missing frames. This isn't too distracting however.

In comparison with the earlier Kino release, this version has a more natural look. The 2002 disc had the sharpness boosted a bit too high in parts, and this restoration corrects that. The image on this version has a warmer, more realistic look to it, but there is a small amount of detail that has been lost. A bit more of the frame is shown this time around too, with more information at the bottom and sides. There are significantly fewer scratches and dirt spots on this version also. The print has been cleaned up to a large extent and the tinting isn't as dark and these factors make this film even more enjoyable.

While this is an excellent looking DVD, it's not quite perfect. The highlights still tend to be washed out, and the image is a bit soft in places. These are minor defects though, and barring the discovery of another print, I doubt that this film will look much better than this.

Extras:

The set comes with some nice extras. First off is a 53-minute documentary: The Language of Shadows. This covers Murnau's early years and is quite interesting. The film discusses his earliest films and even includes clips from some of these that are now lost. With images from surviving notes and scripts, viewers can get a feel for what some of these films might have been like. Of course the creation of Nosferatu is covered in depth. The filmmakers search out the streets and exteriors that were used in the film and quote from production diaries and written accounts of the shooting. The film's reception and how the art director Albin Grau had turned to occultism a few years after he finished working on Nosferatu. A very good look at Murnau's early work.

There is also a three-minute look at the restoration process (in German with English subtitles) and a scene comparison which presents an excerpt from Bram Stoker's novel, Henrick Galeen's screenplay and the finally the filmed sequence. Eight film clips from Murnau films are included, which run between 3 and 11 minutes each, and a nice photo gallery rounds out the extras.

Final Thoughts:

This is an excellent film, one of the all-time classics of silent cinema. This new restoration improves on the earlier release, which didn't look bad at all. With the new documentary about Murnau and the improved image, this disc is worth getting even if you have the earlier disc that Kino put out. Highly Recommended.

*highlighted, to point out my reasons for believing the transfer and not the disc chops off Schrecks head this time around.

With the booklet essay, definitely not a shabby release, though I'll be very interested to see the Moc when I put together my next overseas order. Sometimes however, the glurps and burps of PAL video can be a pain inna ass, but always interested in commentary and essays by thoughtful folks on this film, which still after all this time and info in my brain still remains a shadowy enigma in terms of conception to execution. Those who think they've fully seen and experienced this film owing to a zillion viewings in previous incarnations will be jolted by the beauty of this transfer on the MoC/Kino, which reveals a level of of genuinely cinematic pictorialism not present in any of the previous transfers, including the previous Bologna resto on the previous Kino disc. Go for the fat book and the commentary, or the thin book and a few extra Extras, or buy both (like me) but buy this new go round. You'll feel like you're watching the film for the first time-- like POTEMKIN. (not to mention the indication of camera moves, and shadowy dudes creeping around Orloks pad in white shirts and ties) The only thing which bugs me is this transfer had chopped Orloks head off again... and they only just put it back on a couple years ago!

I thought he was a vampyre! Not a CREATURE WITH THE ATOM BRAIN!

Meaning-- after all this chopping and reattaching of his skull, Max Schreck is going to look like this:

J Wilson · #25 Post by **J Wilson** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:53 pm

HerrSchreck wrote:Kino has done a strange thing here: instead of interlacing the film to get it down to the correct projection speed (18fps I believe), they chose to progressively encode it, but add extra frames in every few frames to have it spool off mathematically correctly for the frame rate.

Are you sure this is the case, regarding it being progressive? One of my players (Malata N996) lists whether a transfer is progressive or interlaced, and this one comes back as an interlaced source. It still looks great, though.