8 / BD 16 Metropolis

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Tommaso
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:09 am

Re: 8 Metropolis

#101 Post by Tommaso » Sat May 08, 2010 12:11 pm

I'm not fully sure about an Astrée box set either, but that Gramola set is a cycle on modern instruments from the late 60s, as far as I know. Brautigam seems to be a good, though expensive alternative.

Back to topic.....

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MichaelB
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Re: 8 Metropolis

#102 Post by MichaelB » Sat May 08, 2010 1:17 pm

Jonathan S wrote:One thing is certain: the speeds printed on the original record labels at the time of release are sometimes definitely wrong and (though I'm not suggesting this in the case of Metropolis) I wonder if contemporary documentation about silent film frame-rates should also be approached with scepticism.
We had this debate recently regarding the Mr Bongo edition of Dovzhenko's Earth, which appears to have been transferred at 20fps. To my eye, this seems pretty much bang on (it certainly feels "right" in a way that the old stretch-printed David Shepherd version released by Image and Kino conspicuously doesn't), but other sources (Georges Sadoul being one) claim that it should be 16fps. I have no means of playing it at that speed, but for a 1930 film this feels historically wrong, and the evidence of the 20fps version suggests that this would be uncomfortably slow.

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zedz
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Re: 8 Metropolis

#103 Post by zedz » Sun May 09, 2010 6:27 pm

MichaelB wrote:. . . but other sources (Georges Sadoul being one) claim that it should be 16fps.
I think we discussed this before (probably in the Earth thread), but I suspect that Sadoul's sixteen was a Cinematheque Francaise eccentricity (i.e. that all silent films should be shown at this speed) that has long ago been debunked, along with the removal of intertitles from Feuillade films. I think the evidence of the film and of your eye is much more valuable.

videozor
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Re: 8 Metropolis

#104 Post by videozor » Thu May 13, 2010 2:12 pm

DVD Times on re-issue:

http://homecinema.thedigitalfix.co.uk/c ... tails.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Commentary by Rosenbaum, no less

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eerik
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Re: 8 Metropolis

#105 Post by eerik » Thu May 13, 2010 2:26 pm

videozor wrote:DVD Times on re-issue:

http://homecinema.thedigitalfix.co.uk/c ... tails.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Commentary by Rosenbaum, no less
Old news: viewtopic.php?p=286778#p286778" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

peerpee
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Re: 8 Metropolis

#106 Post by peerpee » Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:07 pm

(Posted in the LA PLANETE SAUVAGE thread, but more relevant here):

re: METROPOLIS on BD.

The whole "region coding protects territories" myth is a tough nut to crack. We'll be talking to as many licencees as possible to work out a way forward. For example, the French licencee MK2 don't region encode their releases.

We've found that licensors are happy with whatever the licencees are happy with collectively. If licencees complain, the licensor steps in and points to the contract.

At the moment, it's Kino who are suggesting we all region encode. Despite them releasing THE GENERAL on BD without region coding. So, with all respect to them, they've opted for a hypocritical "whatever suits Kino" approach to BD region encoding - which obviously looks ridiculous.

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Der Spieler
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Re: 8 Metropolis

#107 Post by Der Spieler » Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:28 pm

Fuck Kino. I'll never buy anything from them if I have some other option.

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perkizitore
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Re: 8 Metropolis

#108 Post by perkizitore » Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:23 am

Peerpee, Criterion are more hypocritical on this issue, they region lock everything because they can't be bothered pressuring licensors. Btw, does it require more effort to region lock something or persuading the licensor to change their views?
Last edited by perkizitore on Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tommaso
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Re: 8 Metropolis

#109 Post by Tommaso » Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:47 am

But unlike Kino, Criterion don't really have to be afraid of superior editions of a particular film to be imported into the US. And of course, region coding means less sales for CC, at least in the case of Blu.

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perkizitore
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Re: 8 Metropolis

#110 Post by perkizitore » Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:19 am

I agree with your points Tommaso, so it baffles me why Criterion chose this path and not the BFI one!

peerpee
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Re: 8 Metropolis

#111 Post by peerpee » Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:44 am

I presume that Criterion region encode all their BDs so as not to upset any licencees or licensors around the world and to maintain their fine relationships with licensors for future projects.

Perkizitore, Criterion's approach is not at all hypocritical. It could be argued that they're playing it safe, but at least it's consistent, and that's what's important.

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Der Spieler
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Re: 8 Metropolis

#112 Post by Der Spieler » Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:22 pm

Most Kino products are like a 5-star meal that's been lying around the counter for a couple of days.

The recipe is still awesome but the actual taste is sour.

McCrutchy
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Re: 8 Metropolis

#113 Post by McCrutchy » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:05 pm

peerpee wrote:At the moment, it's Kino who are suggesting we all region encode. Despite them releasing THE GENERAL on BD without region coding. So, with all respect to them, they've opted for a hypocritical "whatever suits Kino" approach to BD region encoding - which obviously looks ridiculous.
And also

Ballast, Battleship Potemkin, Fallen Angels and Happy Together are all region-free...I can't confirm Harvard Beats Yale 29-29, but that's everything they've released so far. So they want others to lock their releases while they pump out a ton of region-free discs. Lovely.

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MichaelB
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Re: 8 Metropolis

#114 Post by MichaelB » Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:40 pm

peerpee wrote:I presume that Criterion region encode all their BDs so as not to upset any licencees or licensors around the world and to maintain their fine relationships with licensors for future projects.
They've been region-coding their DVDs across the board for a good few years now - whereas a decade ago the overwhelming majority were region-free (the exceptions generally being licensed from Buena Vista or Japanese rightsholders). I suspect there may be a connection between the timing of this policy and Criterion transfers/extras appearing elsewhere on other labels.

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Ovader
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Re: 8 Metropolis

#115 Post by Ovader » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:53 am

Updated home page

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TMDaines
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Re: 8 Metropolis

#116 Post by TMDaines » Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:58 am

Trailer looks sensational. I cannot wait for this as it will be my first time viewing Metropolis.

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perkizitore
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Re: 8 Metropolis

#117 Post by perkizitore » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:55 am

I've watched the Moroder version like 5 years ago, i am sure it must be the first silent i ever saw!

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Norbie
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Re: 8 Metropolis

#118 Post by Norbie » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:22 am

How restored will the restored sessions look? I saw the trailer and there are some scenes
that had some horrible railway markings (which i assume is part of the lost 25min).
I hope that it won't look like this in the final release. Is there a place where one could (sorry
with the queens english) have a look how the new restored minutes will look in the final
release?

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aox
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Re: 8 Metropolis

#119 Post by aox » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:27 am

Norbie wrote:How restored will the restored sessions look? I saw the trailer and there are some scenes
that had some horrible railway markings (which i assume is part of the lost 25min).
I hope that it won't look like this in the final release. Is there a place where one could (sorry
with the queens english) have a look how the new restored minutes will look in the final
release?
We're lucky to have that footage all. You should see the missing 16mm footage before they restored it. It currently looks incredible.

Comparisons to how it was found to how it was remastered: http://www.scientific-media.de/showroom/metropolis/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HarryLong
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Re: 8 Metropolis

#120 Post by HarryLong » Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:55 pm

Perverse as it may sound, I'll appreciate the difference in quality because it will instantly alet me where the "lost" footage has been inserted.

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Florinaldo
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Re: 8 Metropolis

#121 Post by Florinaldo » Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:02 pm

perkizitore wrote:I've watched the Moroder version like 5 years ago, i am sure it must be the first silent i ever saw!
The Moroder version can hardly be counted as "silent"... :wink:

As for the restored clips still showing damage, it's this or nothing at all. Fleeting disappointement with the fact some of the damage is still very visible, and uncorrectable, vanishes instantly when one thinks that otherwise we would have to be content with a version we know to be incomplete as the only one accessible, since inadequate storage and natural chemical degradation have taken their unavoidable toll. At least buyers and viewers should be forewarned regarding exactly what product they are getting and not expect a perfect B&W in all sequences of the film.

On a more trivial note: has anyone else ordered the Metropolis poster Eureka was selling and has it started to show up? They are not advertising it anymore so I suppose the run has sold out and I have still to see my copy.

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Norbie
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Re: 8 Metropolis

#122 Post by Norbie » Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:21 am

aox

We're lucky to have that footage all. You should see the missing 16mm footage before they restored it. It currently looks incredible.
No disrespect to all who worked on getting the best out of the found footage. I just wished it could have been the same as the already restored. It just comes down to time and money i guess. I wouldn't want to wait 10+ years to get it perfect before releasing to the public either.

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Tommaso
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Re: 8 Metropolis

#123 Post by Tommaso » Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:33 am

I think there is simply no way to get it up to the rest of the material, no matter how much time or money is involved. The materials are in such a bad state that no technology currently existing would be able to do that.

Jonathan S
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Re: 8 Metropolis

#124 Post by Jonathan S » Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:40 am

And it's not just a question of damage. Even if the newly discovered footage had been in pristine condition, it would surely still have looked photographically inferior to the rest because it's 16mm.

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swo17
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Re: 8 Metropolis

#125 Post by swo17 » Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:06 am

Why don't they just insert scenes from Alex Proyas' Dark City? That footage looks great!

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