The Best Picture Lists - Discussion and Defenses

An ongoing project to survey the best films of individual decades, genres, and filmmakers.
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knives
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Re: The Best Picture Lists - Discussion and Defenses

#51 Post by knives » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:09 pm

I figured that would be the response,but whatever. I've seen a lot of this turn of the century family epics like The World Moves On and this is the only one I've gotten any enjoyment out of. It's also the only one that seems to appreciate it's use outside of showing a bunch of famous moments. Without question how this narrative conceit would evolve in the '50s is superior, but as respresentative of its '30s form it's very compelling to me.

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domino harvey
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Re: The Best Picture Lists - Discussion and Defenses

#52 Post by domino harvey » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:11 pm

I truly cannot understand liking the film, but I don’t doubt for a second that you’re sincere in your appreciation of it. Hell, apparently you’re on a better wavelength with the Hollywood elite at the time it was released than any of the rest of us haha

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knives
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Re: The Best Picture Lists - Discussion and Defenses

#53 Post by knives » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:12 pm

Now that's a frightening thought.

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dustybooks
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Re: The Best Picture Lists - Discussion and Defenses

#54 Post by dustybooks » Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:48 pm

Brando's performance in Sayonara really is very strange (though one of my quirks on this era of cinema is that I'm really not a fan of his anyway). There's one scene I remember when he's talking to another character who says something about "stuff" and he responds, in very dead-sounding caveman voice, "Did yew say stuff?" and the reply is "Brother, I said stuff." My wife and I reenact this exchange a lot now.

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knives
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Re: The Best Picture Lists - Discussion and Defenses

#55 Post by knives » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:00 pm

Honestly, gun to my head I can't think of any Brando I enjoy as something other than camp.

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knives
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Re: The Best Picture Lists - Discussion and Defenses

#56 Post by knives » Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:45 pm

Precious
I'm not sure what to think about this film. It's definitely a melodrama in the vein of throwing it all to the wall. The film is overwhelmed by events to the point that it doesn't become clear until much later that the characters don't really have character. Even with Precious who is front and center of every scene I don't know much of who she is. I know the events of her life and where she fails as a student, but I don't know anything about her character. I wish the film would slow down and let us know her. There are plenty of good things going on in the movie and it does function as an interesting cure to those Dangerous Minds type of movies. I just wish it was a little more focused. It doesn't help the film either that her classmates are all far more compelling characters than Precious with their own fascinating problems that wouldn't detract from the themes of the film. Though I wouldn't lose the, "straight up lesbians," line for the world.

An additional part of who it doesn't succeed as a corrective is the elements that everyone talks about with it feeding into some bad stereotypes in an uncritical way. Some of that is necessary for the point of the movie (it wouldn't work with a pretty, upperclass girl), but some does seem unnecessary. For example how the film seems to buy into a caste system where the more negatively thought out characters are darker skinned an in general dark skin is used as a shorthand for violence and poverty. Some of that may be excused by the film being so subjective (we clearly never see reality and only Precious' fantasy), but the skin colour of characters never morphs to reflect that. I feel like I need to reserve judgement until I hear a more diverse response.

There's a fair amount of nuance in here though. For example, under Precious' view her mother's violence is occasionally born out of a need to protect. It's glanced over because the movie is way too fast, but that's a fascinating that is one of many that adds to the nuance in the film's portrayal of poverty as a social class with it's own rules and most importantly limitations. That's a sentiment I would like to see more of in a better focused film. Also while the fantasies give the film a nice gay flare, Daniels really should be talked about as a queer filmmaker as much as a black one, that make it hard to understand what is occurring like a Brecht device when the film really shouldn't have one.

Mutiny on the Bounty (dirs. Reed and Milestone)
This is significantly better than the Lloyd version at the least and Brando's performance is a lot more coherent than in Sayonara. The key to the film's success is Howard doing what he does best at his best. This is an intelligent officer who happens to have a philosophy of leadership which cannot sustain itself especially after they land. It's also a gorgeous film to look at with the right mix of edifice and natural beauty. The only real problem I have is that the length can be felt in some parts. It still moves more swiftly than many films at half its length so I'll keep that complaint to a minimum.

Talk of the Town
This is a fun little film full of engaging characters. In particular Colman plays a fascinating type that helps lift this up into something memorable. The most interesting thing here though is that this is another peg against the myth that it was the war that changed Stevens. Though ostensibly a comedy the film doesn't have a joke for the first five minutes or so and allows itself to get quite dark with Grant's vicious attack against a guard. It's also at its most lively when being philosophical about the nature of the law versus its practice as Grant's socialist butts head with Colman's true believer.

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knives
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Re: The Best Picture Lists - Discussion and Defenses

#57 Post by knives » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:01 pm

Just organized my winners list and there's only one decade without any films on it. It did have a film until I hit the '00s though.

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movielocke
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The Best Picture Lists - Discussion and Defenses

#58 Post by movielocke » Thu May 02, 2019 5:15 pm

Hamlet has been near the bottom of my best picture winners for so long I don’t remember if I watched it after reading it in high school or after reading it in college. But! I’m moderately certain I either dozed or watched it inattentively those two decades ago, and I’ve been meaning to watch it since finally seeing Henry v ten years ago or so but was waiting futilely for a blu ray upgrade.

So I circled back to it with this project and was definitely wrong about it, it’s a wonderful film and version of the play, terrific camera work in particular, very nicely done. Still won’t make my list but it’s landed in the high middles and is definitely the biggest riser from any rewatch, moving up 44 places or so.

I also recently rewatched Casablanca, and wow, it is even better in every respect than I remember, probably my fifth or sixth time watching it, but it finally displaced Lawrence of Arabia from my top two,and it might be the best of all of them, but I’ll probably keep my favorite at number one. :-)

I also revisited midnight cowboy, which also went way up in rankings (about twenty five places) and was better than I gave it credit when I watched it at sixteen hoping for rated x titties/titilation , but Some of the flashbacks are just so cudgel like that it brings the whole film down some for me. On the other hand, I remember hating the psychedelic trip as a teenager and now think it’s the best part of the film, brilliantly done. And now I absolutely love the downbeat, deeply sad ending, so perfectly pitched for this film.

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knives
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Re: The Best Picture Lists - Discussion and Defenses

#59 Post by knives » Thu May 02, 2019 11:31 pm

Skippy
Mank's script is unbelievably good here. Hidden behind Little Rascal type antics is a surprisingly political look at a modern middle class coming to age in the depression. Throughout it's whole the movie is hocking in its directness and unvarnished look as class prejudice. It's easy enough, I suppose, to just enjoy this as a fun, little, kids film,but for me it is impossible not to be wowed by its sensitivity to class like a Kes for the Pickford set. What's equally impressive is the quality of the children's performances. Not a cloying or hamfisted act in the bunch which given the norm of the era is nothing short of a miracle. Cooper is of course very impressive in the lead. He's far superior to his performance in The Champ let alone Mickey Rooney similar schtick in a few years. The most impressive member of the cast though is a green Robert Coogan. I haven't seen him elsewhere and it is clearly a very director molded performance, but it is also the one that feels most true to reality. It's the sort of rough performance that people were driven to have with Italian neo-realism. If it weren't for the famous surname you could easily fool me by saying that Coogan was basically the kid picked up off the streets for the movie. It's a performance that needs to be seen to be believed.

Wilson
I liked this movie, but accusations that it follows the most boring professor ever are accurate. Knox plays Wilson as a plank of wood whose biggest emotional reaction for me was when I guffawed at his claim that he was being too spontaneous. His big emotional scene takes place entirely off screen. So as a character piece this is quite dead, but as an anthropological snapshot of Wilson's reputation it is quite fascinating. This is hero worship for an era ready for Miller's tragic hero. An ordinary man who is special because of situation rather than any personality trait (because he has none). This of course wouldn't work today because of who Wilson is seen as, but in '44 at a reflection point to Wilson's era he is the ultimate hero up there with Lincoln and Washington which is fascinating. It probably doesn't hurt either that I'm in the midsts of reading up on the presidents so this sort of style is really working for me in that light.

King Solomon's Mines
I'm genuinely curious how this average if star studded programmer became the jungle film to get nominated? Is it just because it came so early in the cycle ala Anchors Aweigh? The opening in which an elephant is killed put me off the film for a long while, but the basic charm of the movie is effective enough that by the end I was at least enjoying myself.

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domino harvey
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Re: The Best Picture Lists - Discussion and Defenses

#60 Post by domino harvey » Thu May 02, 2019 11:36 pm

Because King Solomon’s Mines was the highest grossing film of the year. Something overlooked in the outrage over the recent failed Popular Oscar proposals is that a slot often went to the year’s blockbuster even back in the day

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knives
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Re: The Best Picture Lists - Discussion and Defenses

#61 Post by knives » Thu May 02, 2019 11:43 pm

That would explain things well and good. Still, a shame that fortune wasn't instead afforded to something like Mogambo even as its far from the worst movie I've seen for this project. It's just very middling.
Last edited by knives on Thu May 02, 2019 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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domino harvey
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Re: The Best Picture Lists - Discussion and Defenses

#62 Post by domino harvey » Thu May 02, 2019 11:48 pm

Yep, inoffensive but forgettable fluff. I sometimes play Oscar memory games in my head during the ends of workouts to get me over the finish and it’s one that’s tripped me up for 1950 more than once, though from now on I’ll probably remember it just because I said that!

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movielocke
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Re: The Best Picture Lists - Discussion and Defenses

#63 Post by movielocke » Wed May 08, 2019 10:31 pm

knives wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 11:31 pm
Skippy
Mank's script is unbelievably good here. Hidden behind Little Rascal type antics is a surprisingly political look at a modern middle class coming to age in the depression. Throughout it's whole the movie is hocking in its directness and unvarnished look as class prejudice. It's easy enough, I suppose, to just enjoy this as a fun, little, kids film,but for me it is impossible not to be wowed by its sensitivity to class like a Kes for the Pickford set. What's equally impressive is the quality of the children's performances. Not a cloying or hamfisted act in the bunch which given the norm of the era is nothing short of a miracle. Cooper is of course very impressive in the lead. He's far superior to his performance in The Champ let alone Mickey Rooney similar schtick in a few years. The most impressive member of the cast though is a green Robert Coogan. I haven't seen him elsewhere and it is clearly a very director molded performance, but it is also the one that feels most true to reality. It's the sort of rough performance that people were driven to have with Italian neo-realism. If it weren't for the famous surname you could easily fool me by saying that Coogan was basically the kid picked up off the streets for the movie. It's a performance that needs to be seen to be believed.

Wilson
I rewatched Skippy around the time it played on TCM, as I'd only ever seen it in 16mm and didn't remember it very well. I agree the script and story are fairly strong, especially the social elements, as is Cooper, but I strongly disagree on Coogan, I thought he (and the other child actors) were pretty terrible. Coogan's constantly looking offscreen, and gasping out lines in fragment-after-fragment incredibly unnaturally. And yet, even having seen this just a month ago, I can still recall more of Cooper's performance from The Champ seen a decade or more ago, so I guess he was far more impactful in that film for me.

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knives
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Re: The Best Picture Lists - Discussion and Defenses

#64 Post by knives » Thu May 09, 2019 11:28 am

I have encountered dozens of kids who talk and interact the way Coogan does here so I feel familiar with that type. It is not a polished performance, but a real one.

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domino harvey
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Re: The Best Picture Lists - Discussion and Defenses

#65 Post by domino harvey » Thu May 09, 2019 11:31 am

I'm with knives. Here's my writeup from the OG Best Pic thread
domino harvey wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:31 pm

Skippy I've often wondered why the Academy gave a Best Director Oscar to Norman Taurog, one of the most invisible workhorses to ever pass through the studio system. Well, now that I've seen the pic he was rewarded for, it seems clear that the Academy was suitably impressed with Taurog's ability to get competent, at times actually childlike performances out of his mostly kindergarden-aged cast. The film itself works best when it stops trying to be a proto-sitcom (I see it was based on a comic strip, which figures) and actually hits some observant humor. I especially liked the early gags about kids getting ready. The film admittedly does such a good job capturing children that it often slips into shrill and loud kids play with little mercy for the adults who are presumably the target audience.

It's got my vote, but not before I make two final passing observations about the film: It presents the poor as heroes and the middle class as villains, yet makes the primary villain a member of the lower class. And for having two screenwriters who went on to directorial careers of their own, what were McLeod and Mankiewicz thinking with that 180 ending that literally could have been written by a first grader?

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knives
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Re: The Best Picture Lists - Discussion and Defenses

#66 Post by knives » Thu May 09, 2019 11:47 am

The ending is a bit weird, but I took it as the most believable way to achieve the happy ending that would never make sense.

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movielocke
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Re: The Best Picture Lists - Discussion and Defenses

#67 Post by movielocke » Mon May 13, 2019 11:23 pm

The Wings Bluray is pretty spectacular. And hey, the movie is pretty good too, better on bluray than in 35mm with live piano! The two lead actors are atrocious but the direction of the flying and battle scenes is absolutely incredible. Put Gary Cooper in the David or Jack role and you'd have a top twenty Best Picture winner, easily, his two minutes in the film are the best acting in the entire film.

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domino harvey
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Re: The Best Picture Lists - Discussion and Defenses

#68 Post by domino harvey » Tue May 14, 2019 4:02 pm

Reminder that there’s about two weeks left before Lists are due. Kind of a disappointing participation level so far, but props to those members who’ve been keeping it going with their thoughts. It’s not too late to see a new to you eligible film or revisit an old friend or foe and discuss it here!

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knives
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Re: The Best Picture Lists - Discussion and Defenses

#69 Post by knives » Tue May 14, 2019 4:50 pm

It's so annoying I'm likely not going to see Vice in time. Why else would I see it. :-"

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domino harvey
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Re: The Best Picture Lists - Discussion and Defenses

#70 Post by domino harvey » Tue May 14, 2019 4:54 pm

Jesse Plemons completist

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knives
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Re: The Best Picture Lists - Discussion and Defenses

#71 Post by knives » Tue May 14, 2019 5:04 pm

Or I could just rewatch Game Night.

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domino harvey
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Re: The Best Picture Lists - Discussion and Defenses

#72 Post by domino harvey » Tue May 14, 2019 5:09 pm

An infinitely better use of your time. Plemons was legit robbed of an Oscar nom for that one

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movielocke
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The Best Picture Lists - Discussion and Defenses

#73 Post by movielocke » Tue May 14, 2019 7:20 pm

It strikes me as unlikely given the paucity of discussion, but the best picture list, being self limited to 92 items is sort of unique to other mini lists. For curiosity and amusements sake if anyone wants to submit fully ranked lists of all 92, I’d compile them up into a master ranked list. I’m actually a more than a little curious where the middled middle and bottom half would shake out given such a sorting.

Of course I also always assume everyone in this board has seen a lot more films than I have, so maybe my assumption that everyone participating has seen all 92 is wrong. :-p

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knives
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Re: The Best Picture Lists - Discussion and Defenses

#74 Post by knives » Tue May 14, 2019 9:52 pm

I'd be amazed if there was more than nine of us especially given the scarcity of some of the early titles.

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domino harvey
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Re: The Best Picture Lists - Discussion and Defenses

#75 Post by domino harvey » Tue May 14, 2019 10:18 pm

I doubt there is even nine of us. I also don’t think I could personally remember some of the winners in congress with each other well enough to rank them with any confidence, but by all means, if anyone can and wants to submit their full ranking to movielocke, please do

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