Auteur List: Howard Hawks - Discussion and Defenses
- Rayon Vert
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Re: Auteur List: Howard Hawks - Discussion and Defenses
So I was able to find all of the remaining major Hawks sound films online except Viva Villa! - so including Ceiling Zero - and a few more silents. I've added them to the guide post.
- Rayon Vert
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Re: Auteur List: Howard Hawks - Discussion and Defenses
That's interesting. So you made me open up the Robin Wood book to see what he made of it, and he indeed put it in the Appendix ("Failures and Marginal Works"!).therewillbeblus wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:05 pmIt's worth mentioning that The Big Sleep feels like one of the largest outliers in Hawks' oeuvre, as it really doesn't reflect his brand of ideology or meditations on fellowship. I would make a case that his flair for capturing dynamic dialogue and bouts of extraordinarily rough actions are present, but otherwise it just cements that he's one of the best at engaging in relentless forward momentum in a manner that feels more breezily entertaining than acutely aggressive.
- therewillbeblus
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Re: Auteur List: Howard Hawks - Discussion and Defenses
mizo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:19 pmRe: the loose end murder in The Big Sleep
This post was originally going to begin "I haven't seen it lately, so I may be misremembering, and this might just be my interpretation..." but in the process of writing I ended up rewatching part of the movie and, man, it is obvious thatSpoilerShowJoe Brody killed Taylor (the chauffeur). It's only Brody's sudden death that stops Marlowe from pressuring him further on it. I get that the movie is tough to follow, I had to pause and rewind a couple times while watching to make sure I was getting everything. But it's completely silly that the iconic example of the movie's incoherence is something that it just doesn't quite say explicitly. I mean, Hawks could hardly do more to underline the fact that Brody has something to hide. He builds an entire (lovely) comedic bit around Brody being too cagey and worried to look Marlowe in the eye!
SpoilerShow
That's the other main theory, and the one I always have myself when I watch it (I agree with you mizo, there appears to be an obvious disbelief in the denial). Still, Brody's anxiety could be from being accused or any number of other things he's involved in, and his biggest expression of surprise comes from being killed. While I think there are clear indicators of his guilt too, there are always alternate rationales for his nervous behavior, and it's not enough to completely close the book on it. However, while I 'prefer' the suicide theory because it's just extra pleasurable to believe that everyone was wrong, Brody is the most likely culprit. I'm glad someone else noticed his red flags, I always feel like I'm crazy when I point the finger at him so early!
- therewillbeblus
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Re: Auteur List: Howard Hawks - Discussion and Defenses
That's great - though people should really try to find a way to track this one down, as it's actually very good and just enjoyable all around. Pretty sad that it was nominated for BP, yet no one can access it easily.Rayon Vert wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:21 pmSo I was able to find all of the remaining major Hawks sound films online except Viva Villa!
- Rayon Vert
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Re: Auteur List: Howard Hawks - Discussion and Defenses
There's an upload of it on YT, but it's only useful if you speak Russian and can understand the heavy dubbing!
It's available for sale as a Warner Archive dvd of course.
It's available for sale as a Warner Archive dvd of course.
- therewillbeblus
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Re: Auteur List: Howard Hawks - Discussion and Defenses
This is a pretty thorough comparison of the two versionsRed Screamer wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:05 pmYou can probably find a precise list of differences between the versions somewhereNever Cursed wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:01 pmI've never seen The Big Sleep before, so to those who have, which version should I seek out?
I grew up watching the theatrical as a kid, but I've latched onto the original pre-release since. I think we get the perfect amount of Bogart/Bacall in the pre-release version, and their strange hostile flirtation and curious chance encounters makes the relationship a lot more interesting and mysterious as we focus on that as its own social-emotional mystery along with the others in the narrative.
- Feego
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Re: Auteur List: Howard Hawks - Discussion and Defenses
For those in the U.S. with TCM, they're not showing too much Hawks or anything super rare over the next two months, but here's what's on the schedule (all times Eastern):
June 4
His Girl Friday (6:15 pm)
A Song Is Born (1:15 am) – technically June 5 morning
June 23
I Was a Male War Bride (8:00 pm)
July 8
Bringing Up Baby (10:00 pm)
July 16
Gentlemen Prefer Blondes (11:45 pm)
July 18
Rio Bravo (5:30 pm)
July 22
His Girl Friday (1:00 am) – technically July 23 morning
July 26
Gentlemen Prefer Blondes (6:15 pm)
June 4
His Girl Friday (6:15 pm)
A Song Is Born (1:15 am) – technically June 5 morning
June 23
I Was a Male War Bride (8:00 pm)
July 8
Bringing Up Baby (10:00 pm)
July 16
Gentlemen Prefer Blondes (11:45 pm)
July 18
Rio Bravo (5:30 pm)
July 22
His Girl Friday (1:00 am) – technically July 23 morning
July 26
Gentlemen Prefer Blondes (6:15 pm)
- therewillbeblus
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm
Re: Auteur List: Howard Hawks - Discussion and Defenses
Great reason for those who can to take a Friday off and catch A Song Is Born, which is hard to find! Thanks Feego!
- therewillbeblus
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm
Re: Auteur List: Howard Hawks - Discussion and Defenses
Onto the sounds, a revisit of The Dawn Patrol planted it in the same camp it was already in - that of an extremely vibrant social-actioner, but a little overexaggerated on the action front compared to his best air force films. It’s technically brilliant, and I can’t really say a bad thing about it, other than to compare it unfavorably to Only Angels Have Wings and Air Force, which are both going to make my top five, so this film’s greatness exists just fine in a vacuum. There is an acute viciousness here though that feels absent, or less attended to, in those later films. The characters may not be as fully dimensional and involving either, but Hawks is still able to balance personalities with high stakes and formalist brilliance. I can’t ask for much more from one of his first sound films.
The Criminal Code is a finely tuned pre-Code crime picture that dares to flesh out the collective affinity of men in prison as perhaps even more accessible than the outside world! This also draws on Hawks’ own interest for high-stress milieus that yield greater rewards for greater risks. There is a similar energy to the intense expectations of Hawks’ air force brigades, and although there have been plenty of collaborative-prisoner films, never have I actually felt so comfortably motivated to stick in there and fight than self-preserve! The honesty in the romance feels right without being overcooked (thankfully, Hawks avoids that kind of drama at all costs) and the menace in the threats to camaraderie are treated as weak individualists that are representative of anti-American values in Hawks’ view. Plus, Karloff.
Scarface I’ve seen many times, but I sometimes forget how fierce it is.. There is a lot of merciless violence and killing, and when there’s a moment to meditate on some tension, characters are getting soaked with grime of booze, glass is shattering, property is smashed, and whether from gunfire killing human beings or demolition of inanimate objects, dust is filmed settling in the air- the residue of demolition. This is a film that essentially provides eloquent exposition of the destructive powers of mankind, and Muni is always there to cooly pass through this world carelessly.
The irony in the ‘good’ powers asking to stop giving attention to the gangsters, in a film that methodically details these cruel acts, is strange, and I never really understood Hawks’ stake in this film. He’s surely not siding with Muni’s ‘winner’- but perhaps there is a paradoxical tension in his interest of an organized group so good at sustaining themselves and rendering the other, government-run protective enforcers helpless, while also self-destructing on their own failure to follow a code. It’s like an unstoppable monster that decides to eat itself, strong and impressive yet containing no internal logic or morality and therefore a waste of potential (and despicably unimpressive) in Hawks’ assessment.
I realize that there are enough similarities to the book for Hawks to have less of a hand in delivering the themes than I’m professing. Still, there is a focus of wary consequences of individualism present here that feel rolled over from the look on the warden in his previous film, The Criminal Code. Muni is absolutely terrific here, and I’ve always loved watching this and I Am a Fugitive From a Chain Gang! close together to be reminded of the poles of range during pre-Code Hollywood. I really don’t care for the De Palma re-imagining too much, but this one is a keeper, even if it won’t make my list.
Perhaps someone else will have more to say about The Crowd Roars and Tiger Shark, because I shrugged at both. I enjoyed the beginning of the Cagney, where he is uncharacteristically portrayed as aimless and placid(!), as well as the very end which was a cute little celebration - but the bulk of the film involved some cool racing scenes and not much else in the way of involving drama. I didn’t feel like Hawks was a good fit for Robinson’s predicament in Tiger Shark, which seemed to be asking for a deeper ethical dilemma dissection, something Hawks fairly avoids in disinterest. The problem is he doesn't go in a more exciting direction so the material just kind of peters out. I'd be interested in a defense of this one, as Robinson's part has potential and perhaps another viewing is in order with a fresh analysis in mind.
Today We Live was a more impressive, if somewhat bloated and contrived, romance that finds success in Faulkner’s contributions in dialogue aided by the actors’ internal processing reflected as external neutrality. Watching Cooper roam around the room early on, acting indifferent and apathetic, as well as his and Crawford’s blossoming attraction based on behavioral principles, is well-constructed. I felt the film went on a bit long and found a few different acts’ worth of drama to facilitate a happy ending (that isn’t so happy..) but overall a solid pre-Code romance that helps set the stage for better iterations following the second war.
The Prizefighter and the Lady is an okay boxing drama that moves along with a brisk tempo, but never rises above mild amusement, and the shifts into musical feel strange and stop anything here from being taken seriously beyond a B-programmer.
Viva Villa!, on the other hand, was actually really good! I’m not sure why I expected otherwise, considering its BP Oscar-nom, but the biopic avoids the trappings of sluggish melodrama in favor of an exciting actioner of forward momentum and lively performance. Any film that wins our allegiance to the compromised anti-hero deserves some praise, and this excitedly succeeded on this front while still reminding us of the bigger picture, even if that is (thankfully) a grey one itself!
The Criminal Code is a finely tuned pre-Code crime picture that dares to flesh out the collective affinity of men in prison as perhaps even more accessible than the outside world! This also draws on Hawks’ own interest for high-stress milieus that yield greater rewards for greater risks. There is a similar energy to the intense expectations of Hawks’ air force brigades, and although there have been plenty of collaborative-prisoner films, never have I actually felt so comfortably motivated to stick in there and fight than self-preserve! The honesty in the romance feels right without being overcooked (thankfully, Hawks avoids that kind of drama at all costs) and the menace in the threats to camaraderie are treated as weak individualists that are representative of anti-American values in Hawks’ view. Plus, Karloff.
Scarface I’ve seen many times, but I sometimes forget how fierce it is.. There is a lot of merciless violence and killing, and when there’s a moment to meditate on some tension, characters are getting soaked with grime of booze, glass is shattering, property is smashed, and whether from gunfire killing human beings or demolition of inanimate objects, dust is filmed settling in the air- the residue of demolition. This is a film that essentially provides eloquent exposition of the destructive powers of mankind, and Muni is always there to cooly pass through this world carelessly.
The irony in the ‘good’ powers asking to stop giving attention to the gangsters, in a film that methodically details these cruel acts, is strange, and I never really understood Hawks’ stake in this film. He’s surely not siding with Muni’s ‘winner’- but perhaps there is a paradoxical tension in his interest of an organized group so good at sustaining themselves and rendering the other, government-run protective enforcers helpless, while also self-destructing on their own failure to follow a code. It’s like an unstoppable monster that decides to eat itself, strong and impressive yet containing no internal logic or morality and therefore a waste of potential (and despicably unimpressive) in Hawks’ assessment.
I realize that there are enough similarities to the book for Hawks to have less of a hand in delivering the themes than I’m professing. Still, there is a focus of wary consequences of individualism present here that feel rolled over from the look on the warden in his previous film, The Criminal Code. Muni is absolutely terrific here, and I’ve always loved watching this and I Am a Fugitive From a Chain Gang! close together to be reminded of the poles of range during pre-Code Hollywood. I really don’t care for the De Palma re-imagining too much, but this one is a keeper, even if it won’t make my list.
Perhaps someone else will have more to say about The Crowd Roars and Tiger Shark, because I shrugged at both. I enjoyed the beginning of the Cagney, where he is uncharacteristically portrayed as aimless and placid(!), as well as the very end which was a cute little celebration - but the bulk of the film involved some cool racing scenes and not much else in the way of involving drama. I didn’t feel like Hawks was a good fit for Robinson’s predicament in Tiger Shark, which seemed to be asking for a deeper ethical dilemma dissection, something Hawks fairly avoids in disinterest. The problem is he doesn't go in a more exciting direction so the material just kind of peters out. I'd be interested in a defense of this one, as Robinson's part has potential and perhaps another viewing is in order with a fresh analysis in mind.
Today We Live was a more impressive, if somewhat bloated and contrived, romance that finds success in Faulkner’s contributions in dialogue aided by the actors’ internal processing reflected as external neutrality. Watching Cooper roam around the room early on, acting indifferent and apathetic, as well as his and Crawford’s blossoming attraction based on behavioral principles, is well-constructed. I felt the film went on a bit long and found a few different acts’ worth of drama to facilitate a happy ending (that isn’t so happy..) but overall a solid pre-Code romance that helps set the stage for better iterations following the second war.
The Prizefighter and the Lady is an okay boxing drama that moves along with a brisk tempo, but never rises above mild amusement, and the shifts into musical feel strange and stop anything here from being taken seriously beyond a B-programmer.
Viva Villa!, on the other hand, was actually really good! I’m not sure why I expected otherwise, considering its BP Oscar-nom, but the biopic avoids the trappings of sluggish melodrama in favor of an exciting actioner of forward momentum and lively performance. Any film that wins our allegiance to the compromised anti-hero deserves some praise, and this excitedly succeeded on this front while still reminding us of the bigger picture, even if that is (thankfully) a grey one itself!
- knives
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm
Re: Auteur List: Howard Hawks - Discussion and Defenses
I Was a Male War Bride is the prize of that TCM list.
- therewillbeblus
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm
Re: Auteur List: Howard Hawks - Discussion and Defenses
Ha, and it's in the running for the weakest of the bunch for me (though I still enjoy the film)
- Feego
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Re: Auteur List: Howard Hawks - Discussion and Defenses
I'm definitely looking forward to seeing A Song Is Born and I Was a Male War Bride for the first time, as well as Rio Bravo next month. The others I've already seen and own, but I hope to rewatch as many as I can for this project. I know Gentlemen Prefer Blondes is not usually ranked among Hawks' best, but it will likely place high on my list. I'll wait until after a rewatch, though, to give a spirited defense.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
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Re: Auteur List: Howard Hawks - Discussion and Defenses
Really? I think it’s more here that it’s not that popular. Critically I’ve always seen it counted as one of his best. I do want to finally watch the Hawks unaffiliated follow up, Gentlemen Marry Brunettes, though!
- therewillbeblus
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm
Re: Auteur List: Howard Hawks - Discussion and Defenses
I just caught up with it in my chronological viewings last night (and I just rewatched it for the 50s project), but even though it doesn't hold up as well as it once did after many revisits, this time I found new merit in the way Hawks plays with his own normative patterns of gender. It won't make my list, but I felt compelled to give it a more thorough writeup than in the decades list. I'll look forward to your defense!
- Feego
- Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:30 pm
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Re: Auteur List: Howard Hawks - Discussion and Defenses
Hmm. Maybe I've just not seen it discussed much in the context of Hawks' career. I know it's a well-loved film in general, but when I have seen/heard it discussed, it's either as a Marilyn Monroe film or as a 1950s musical. My impression was that people have dismissed it as a direct-for-hire job without the usual traits we associate with Hawks, especially with its heavy focus on female camaraderie rather than male (credited to Anita Loos). Although Jane Russell's Dorothy is certainly one of my favorite Hawksian women.domino harvey wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:42 pmReally? I think it’s more here that it’s not that popular. Critically I’ve always seen it counted as one of his best. I do want to finally watch the Hawks unaffiliated follow up, Gentlemen Marry Brunettes, though!
- therewillbeblus
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm
Re: Auteur List: Howard Hawks - Discussion and Defenses
After putting this off for years, I finally pulled the plug and bought it. I wonder how many of my writeups I'll come to reject following a thorough examination of his auteurist stamps.domino harvey wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:18 pmAlso, this may go without saying, but Todd McCarthy's biography of Hawks is essential.
- Rayon Vert
- Green is the Rayest Color
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Re: Auteur List: Howard Hawks - Discussion and Defenses
I seem to remember it more as a biography, both personal and professional, with a lot of attention paid to the development of each film, but not necessarily a lot of analysis of the films themselves - I could be a little off but that's what stayed with me.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
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Re: Auteur List: Howard Hawks - Discussion and Defenses
That’s accurate, it’s a biography with a heavy emphasis on production histories
- therewillbeblus
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Re: Auteur List: Howard Hawks - Discussion and Defenses
Cool, either way I'm excited
- Rayon Vert
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Re: Auteur List: Howard Hawks - Discussion and Defenses
You can get the Robin Wood (if you haven't read it already) if you want the auteurist anaysis!
- therewillbeblus
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm
Re: Auteur List: Howard Hawks - Discussion and Defenses
I don't feel good about supporting a book that blasphemes The Big Sleep, but fine!
- Rayon Vert
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Re: Auteur List: Howard Hawks - Discussion and Defenses
Reading through was he says about it again, he doesn't rate it a failure "exactly", but a success within the "severest limitations". Possibly the works thrown in that appendix (this, Pharaohs, Sgt York and Blondes) are there in part because they don't fit as nicely in the theme categories in which he structures the chapters and includes the various films in. (Which tend to be the most well-known ones, 23 of them in all, so you don't the great majority of the 20s and 30s films.)
- therewillbeblus
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm
Re: Auteur List: Howard Hawks - Discussion and Defenses
Interesting, I'm curious to see how rigid he is in dissecting the work, as I think Sgt York takes Hawks' favorite themes and boils them down to their most humane, sentimental cores, which may be unrecognizable to some but, well, more on that one later.
- Rayon Vert
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Re: Auteur List: Howard Hawks - Discussion and Defenses
Perusing Wood's book again, and seeing how he writes at length and so admiringly about Red Line 7000, makes me almost convinced I saw another film. Given that when I saw it it was such a poor copy, I broke down and splurged for the recent blu ray. I'll probably regret it!
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: Auteur List: Howard Hawks - Discussion and Defenses
Oh no. No no no.