Defend Your Darlings, You Sad Pandas! (The Lists Project)

[knives]

knives - length?

Of the four Ozu's I've seen three of them felt like they could shave ten minutes off and be a better film. Not to say that would actually make them better films.

[carax09]

knives - length?

Of the four Ozu's I've seen three of them felt like they could shave ten minutes off and be a better film. Not to say that would actually make them better films.

*chuckle* Yeah, just lop off those "Pillow Shots", they don't do anything to advance the plot...

[knives]

Those 'pillow shots' are actually my favorite parts. I meant stuff like the drunken friends interlude in Early Spring.

[Yojimbo]

Selective comments regarding some of my faves:

7). Butcher Boy, The (1997)
(unquestionably the greatest ever Irish film, by an Irish director: this was a marriage made in Heaven between Jordan and source novelist McCabe: a masterly blend of the dark, the humourous, and the surreal, with a marvellous performance by Eamonn Owens in the lead role
- unfortunately for him, he's never come close to repeating, let alone building on it
It looks great too.
An attempt to repeat the 'formula' with 'Breakfast on Pluto' was something of a misfire, though)

8). Hairdresser's Husband, The (1990)
Still my favourite Leconte film, despite strong competiotion from 'Monsieur Hire', 'L'homme du train' and 'Le parfum d'Yvonne'
Too often Leconte seems to believe that quirkiness, look, and original storylines are enough, so much so that he teeters towards tweeness, and souffle insubstantiality, but he gets the blend spot on here.
And I loved the soundtrack so much I sought out similar music


11). Crash (1996)
Next to 'The Brood', probably my favourite Cronenberg, although arguably his best film: its not a likeable film, but he got the whole look and sense of the novel absolutely right, even though he diverged somewhat in particular elements

14). Tierra (1996)
I hadn't seen any Medem film until they screened a timely season of his films at a Dublin Film Festival a few years back: he hasn't produced anything of substance since the festival.
This is easily my favourite of his films: although as a drama it is somewhat contrived, its more than compensated by the wonderfully 'earthy' look of the film and the performance, and look, of lead actress, Emma Suárez .
The lead actor is somewhat bland, as I recall, but given his name is 'Angel', and his profession is 'exterminator', you can forgive Medem his selection

19). Face/Off (1997)
Although I have only seen three of Woo's Hollywood films, and, consequently, have no great desire to see any more, this is not only the only film I've seen that can compare, in its balletic mayhem, with his Hong Kong best, but it also features two marvellous performances by two Hollywood actors, particularly Travolta, who I normally don't particularly care for: its story line is of course preposterous, but I wouldn't have it any other way from Woo

24). Milou en mai (1990)
The ensemble playing is undoubtedly an important factor, but Malle gets the whole tone, and pace spot on: for some reason I keep being reminded of Chekhov when watching this one

27). Shakespeare in Love (1998)
Quite possibly the best Shakespeare script not written by The Bard himself: I usually prefer his tragedies to the comedies but this film has persuaded me to give the comedies another chance

34). Parfum d'Yvonne, Le (1994)
If 'Milou' reminded me of Chekhov, this one undoubtedly serves to recall Proust: its all mood and memory, but it transcends its rather slight narrative and would make a wonderful triple bill with two other great Proustian movies: 'Time Regained' and 'La Captive'

35). Central do Brasil (1998)
Most people consider this one overly sentimental, almost Spielbergian in this respect, but I think the woman has just enough of a hard edge to her, and as a portrait of aspects of Brazil it bears comparison with the likes of 'Antonio Das Mortes' , 'City of God', and 'Me You Them'

37). Pusher (1996)
inevitably the remaining two films in the trilogy never measured up to the raw visceral excitement of this one: comparisons with 'The Godfather' are relevant in this respect; it also makes great use of the steadicam.
The director went on to make one of the best David Lynch movies not made by Lynch himself,...'Fear X', which starred John Turturro, but featured a movie stealing performance by James Remar which recalled Dan Duryea, and hopefully he can build on

42).Calendar (1993)
Atom Egoyan and me went our separate ways with his 'The Sweet Hereafter': that film was efficiently made and is obviously a mature work but it lacked the elements that made me a fan, albeit a brief one, as best personified by this film: the blend of the scenes of gentle self-deprecating humour where he lets the audience in on what is staring his self-acted character in the face, but he refuses to acknowledge, and the lyrical scenes of the journey to his homeland

44). Così ridevano (1998)
Another subject of a Dublin Film Festival season: its hard to choose between this, 'L'America', Stolen Children, and the 21st Century's 'Open Doors', but I think its theme gives it the nod for me; lead Enrico Lo Verso, who also starred in two of the others, gives another powerfully expressive performance

48). Notes From The Underground (1995)
I managed to tape it off a network tv showing in the 1990's and don't think its available on DVD yet: its a creditable low-budget reworking of the Dostoyevsky novel, translocated to modern day LA

49). Flower of My Secret, The (1996)
I prefer this one to 'All About My Mother' which I think was a turning point in Almodovar's development: with that film he became a 'better' director, but too slick, too polished for my tastes.
'The Flower of My Secret' is like a classic Hollywood 'woman's picture': something George Cukor would have been proud to have made.
Which I'm sure Almodovar would be glad to hear it described

50). Crow, The (1994)
'Dark City' is more universally feted, but I found that film perhaps too studied, although I hear there's a 'director's cut' now, which might be more rewarding.
I love the whole look of 'The Crow', but perhaps its that Jason Lee's character mirrors his own personal tragedy that gives the film added resonance

[Michael Kerpan]

knives - length?

Of the four Ozu's I've seen three of them felt like they could shave ten minutes off and be a better film. Not to say that would actually make them better films.

I can't think of any Ozu film that I wish was shorter -- not even Munekata Sisters. I would say pretty much every frame is warranted.

[reno dakota]

8). Hairdresser's Husband, The (1990)
Still my favourite Leconte film, despite strong competiotion from 'Monsieur Hire', 'L'homme du train' and 'Le parfum d'Yvonne'
Too often Leconte seems to believe that quirkiness, look, and original storylines are enough, so much so that he teeters towards tweeness, and souffle insubstantiality, but he gets the blend spot on here. And I loved the soundtrack so much I sought out similar music

This was #17 on my list. It's been quite a while since I've seen it, but I do remember it being a real charmer until the final 10 minutes or so, which truly destroyed me. I don't think I breathed once during the credits. Leconte has not made a finer film since this one.

[knives]

knives - length?

Of the four Ozu's I've seen three of them felt like they could shave ten minutes off and be a better film. Not to say that would actually make them better films.

I can't think of any Ozu film that I wish was shorter -- not even Munekata Sisters. I would say pretty much every frame is warranted.

Early Spring? That's the only one I could actually say a specific thing was just filler. He also, from what I've seen, suffers from too many climaxes. That said he is one of my favorite directors from just the late set.

[Michael Kerpan]

Early Spring? That's the only one I could actually say a specific thing was just filler. He also, from what I've seen, suffers from too many climaxes. That said he is one of my favorite directors from just the late set.

Maybe this topic would fit better in either the Ozu thread in Filmmakers or the Eclipse Late Ozu Boxset thread? (I dread continuing it here -- due to our ferocious moderators). ;~}

[Yojimbo]

8). Hairdresser's Husband, The (1990)
Still my favourite Leconte film, despite strong competiotion from 'Monsieur Hire', 'L'homme du train' and 'Le parfum d'Yvonne'
Too often Leconte seems to believe that quirkiness, look, and original storylines are enough, so much so that he teeters towards tweeness, and souffle insubstantiality, but he gets the blend spot on here. And I loved the soundtrack so much I sought out similar music

This was #17 on my list. It's been quite a while since I've seen it, but I do remember it being a real charmer until the final 10 minutes or so, which truly destroyed me. I don't think I breathed once during the credits. Leconte has not made a finer film since this one.

I suspect it needed that dramatic late shift in tone to make it the great film it is

[Tom Hagen]

I am sort of surprised that Before the Rain failed to achieve even bottom feeder status; there's one recent Criterion title that failed to find love.

[feckless boy]

27. Moe no suzaku / Suzaku (Naomi Kawase, 1997). Kawase's first feature film might still be her best (despite a few minor lapses). There is (or was) a wonderful French DVD (French subs only).

I agree about the film, but to call the French DVD (as far as I know there is only one, right?) "wonderful" is, in my opinion, a bit of a stretch.

Specs and Caps:

-non anamorphic (both letter- and windowboxed)
-the French subs are burnt-in
-interlaced
-single-layered
-weak black levels









As you mention, it seems to be out-of-print so hopefully there is a possibility of a better version sometime soon.

[Michael Kerpan]

27. Moe no suzaku / Suzaku (Naomi Kawase, 1997). Kawase's first feature film might still be her best (despite a few minor lapses). There is (or was) a wonderful French DVD (French subs only).

I agree about the film, but to call the French DVD (as far as I know there is only one, right?) "wonderful" is, in my opinion, a bit of a stretch.

Well, the only other alternative at the time the French DVD came out was a failrly low quality pan/scanned HK VCD -- with big burnt in Chinese subs (with tiny English subs below). The French release constituted a huge imprrovement. There is now an unsubbed Japanese DVD -- but I have no idea what this looks like.

[Gregory]

Scanning through the results I noticed with some amazement that no film by Ken Loach even got the two qualifying votes -- with 60 lists submitted? Nothing of his broke into the top of my list, but I did end up placing two of them on the final list. His most widely appreciated film from the decade is surely The Wind the Shakes the Barley. But Sweet Sixteen and A Fond Kiss really merit more attention and consideration, as well. Some interesting things going on under the surface, I found.

I would also like to put in a word for one I forgot to vote for: The Corporation. I saw it high on Colin's list and knew I'd somehow forgotten it. This is still an extremely relevant film and one I hope more people on the forum will see. In terms of documentaries, it could have replaced either When the Levees Broke or Longinotto's Runaway on my list if I hadn't spaced it. The far-higher-ranking documentary on my list was Les Glaneurs et la Glaneuse. I won't even begin to try to write anything about it. I just hope those who have seen it will take the time to go back to it in years to come, and to watch the follow-up if they didn't take the time before.

[Sloper]

Absolutely amazed at The Beat that My Heart Skipped only making it into the second (or third?) also-ran list - it would easily have topped mine...er, if I'd seen enough films from the decade to submit a list...perhaps I just need to see more of these films. Anyway, hopefully now that A Prophet is doing so well people might re-visit The Beat.

And yes, Loach also deserved more attention - as did The House of Mirth.

[reno dakota]

Scanning through the results I noticed with some amazement that no film by Ken Loach even got the two qualifying votes -- with 60 lists submitted? Nothing of his broke into the top of my list, but I did end up placing two of them on the final list. His most widely appreciated film from the decade is surely The Wind the Shakes the Barley. But Sweet Sixteen and A Fond Kiss really merit more attention and consideration, as well. Some interesting things going on under the surface, I found.

That surprised me, too. The Wind that Shakes the Barley was at #43 on my list. It's my only orphan this time (I think), but I'm happy to see that someone noticed its absence.

Absolutely amazed at The Beat that My Heart Skipped only making it into the second (or third?) also-ran list - it would easily have topped mine...er, if I'd seen enough films from the decade to submit a list...perhaps I just need to see more of these films. Anyway, hopefully now that A Prophet is doing so well people might re-visit The Beat.

The Beat that My Heart Skipped was my #21. I didn't really expect it to place, but I'm glad someone else voted for it. It's a film that I love more and more as the years go by, so I'll be moving it up my list next time. So, Sloper, you have until 2014 to watch at least 50 good films from the 2000s so that you can participate.

[GringoTex]

Exactly half of my picks made the final list. Here are some that didn't.

1. Battle in Heaven - Carlos Reygadas
Reygadas gets a lot of grief for his shamelessness (and I think he walks that thin line brilliantly), but I'm still surprised none of his films made it. In Battle in Heaven, there is no light or space between the personal, the political, the religious, the cinematic and the Mexico in this film. Bunuel would have been proud.

7. Los muertos - Lisandro Alonso
Will certainly be my swapsie next go around. I’m not sure I’ve seen a 2000s film with more integrity. He films real people in real surroundings and never once cheats his setting with his camera until the final shot. Zero psychology and zero shaky-cam. Like mana from heaven.

9. Drama/Mex - Gerardo Naranja
By far the most unpopular swapsie for this list. It was my #1 seven months ago, which goes to prove how valuable this list project was in expanding my 2000s horizons. But I'll still defend it to the death: it wears Nietzsche's amor fati on it's sleeve, making it for me the most romantic movie of the decade.

16. Unknown Pleasures - Jia Zhang-ke
My second favorite Jia film, it gets the least love of his features and I'm not sure why. Maybe because it's so unrepentantly despairing. Plays almost like a Chinese 1984 with Jia exploiting the industrial landscape to a harrowing dystopian effect. A highly disturbing, soul-shattering account of existential crisis. You get the sense the protagonists in Platform will carry on but that this younger generation is already hopelessly lost.

18. Moolaadé - Ousmane Sembene
It's absence in the final list was the biggest shocker for me.

30. Once Upon a Time in Mexico - Robert Rodriguez
Yeah it's still here and I still ain't backing down.

[Michael]

I should not be complaining because INLAND EMPIRE made the list but I simply don't understand how Mulholland Drive ended up being ranked so high (#2) leaving INLAND EMPIRE long behind in its shade. Is it because most of you haven't seen IE? Or is it just too abstract for you? Don't get me wrong, I love MD but it's just that IE seems to be so much more, it offers everything we ask for Lynch and more. MD is an amuse-bouche to the 10-course banquet of IE.

[Lemmy Caution]

18. Moolaadé - Ousmane Sembene
It's absence in the final list was the biggest shocker for me.

Zedz, maybe you can check on this title, as Moolade was #20 on my list.
I was also surprised it didn't appear anywhere.
Possibly got lost in the shuffle. Still even two votes seems underwhelming for this powerful film.

7. Los muertos - Lisandro Alonso

I let you down on this GringO.
I thought I had a copy but when I looked for it, it seems maybe I don't.
Then I forgot to buy it because I kept thinking I had it.
Confusion reigned, and whether I have it or not, I certainly never saw it.
No guarantee that I'd like it, but it sounded worth a viewing.
I'll sift and if I don't have it, will pick up a copy and give it a belated whirl.

[colinr0380]

I'm afraid I wasn't particularly enamoured of Loach's output this decade (I'm looking for a film on the level of Ladybird, Ladybird or Raining Stones, where I don't have to make concessions just because I like the filmmaker), and as I have a deep antipathy to football and all its associated commodifications I was left annoyed by the short in Chacun son Cinema (even though it fulfils its brief of "To each their own cinema" by insulting the medium without insight), and cold by the football mad characters in Looking For Eric and Tickets. I just feel that attempts to make football filmic just doesn't seem to work, and mostly to me just seems like calculated and clunking attempts to tap into the massive revenue stream the game commands from its fans. Also see Zidane. Though I suppose Loach could have gone for Vinny Jones rather than Cantona as the ex-violent semi-actor football star in his film, so I guess we should be grateful for small mercies!

I could see Sweet Sixteen as being worthy of voting for though, simply because it was one of the few British films to deal with today's "yoof" without showing them as figures of hate or to be feared. But perhaps the only Loach film that I be glad to endorse from the decade would be the September 11th film comparing 2001 with 1973, and even that takes the overly emotional route of gaining sympathy for its protagonist rather than developing its message through subtler means.

I would also like to put in a word for one I forgot to vote for: The Corporation. I saw it high on Colin's list and knew I'd somehow forgotten it. This is still an extremely relevant film and one I hope more people on the forum will see.

Thanks Gregory. In a way The Corporation is a throw back to the time before activist documentaries became more about the personality of the documentarian and the force of their own charisma, or to when activist documentaries were more concerned with piecing together masses of overwhelming evidence to illustrate their case rather than just pushing the emotionalist buttons. While The Corporation can succumb on occasion to a personalised focus on individuals suffering under the yoke of tyrannical corporations (and the governments and media outlets they can manipulate) that is never seen as the only evidence needed to show the rightness of the cause - instead it is the pile of disparate documented case studies in every area which all help to illustrate a point without trading purely on a sympathetic audience's emotions.

It bears comparison with the earlier Manufacturing Consent, though in this case the mentor figure in Noam Chomsky is removed (or rather, he becomes just one of the many talking heads) from being the figurehead for the ideas, instead the ideas themselves take centre stage without any one defining individual being responsible for them. It develops the idea from the earlier film of there being various 'experts' able to go in depth on their specific area and eager to impart the information they have gathered being showcased throughout the film.

These case studies are then structured into the wider 'narrative' of the film itself, showing the vast range and reach of activities of corporations, and the way they have encroached into every area of human life (and natural life if the idea of ownership of the air you breathe, the water that falls from the sky and the souce of every river, come to pass).

So it is the odd documentary out in a decade in which the genre has become incredibly popular and as a consequence much abused.

My other orphans this decade were:

13. Faithless - A perfect film meticulously following the disintegration of a relationship in flashback from...when and who? Is it someone looking back on their life at its end and lamenting the lost possibilities? Or is a writer willing these characters into being to exorcise other personal demons? And is fictional creation important in itself to allow the author (and audience) the opportunity to considering different paths in life, or of the possibility of adultery without having to actually experience it?

It is a love letter to Bergman, as well as a highly sensual film in its own right (the flashbacks to the developing love affair are compelling even though the betrayal and inevitablilty of its end are always apparent; and the writer's study is perhaps the ultimate in enclosed luxurious comfort).

25 Les Revenants - I talked about this more here

32 A Snake of June - While I don't consider this Tsukamoto's greatest work (that would have to be Bullet Ballet), it is still an extremely beautiful, bizarrely stylised, extremely erotic and very funny and empowering (not just for women) film. More here

42 Bright Young Things - I mentioned at the beginning of the 2000s thread that I thought Gosford Park was perfect except for the jarring introduction of Stephen Fry's bumbling policeman half way through (who is soon dispensed of anyway) who seems to have wandered in from a much broader film. Bright Young Things (directed by Fry) in a way is a great companion piece to Gosford Park, showing the wayward aristocratic younger generation who are far more interested in parties and shenanigans than in portraying a cultured air of mystique to the commoners. It is also nicely captures the genesis of the idea of 'being famous for being famous' which must have seemed scandalously decadant at the time but now feels extremely prescient of our modern 'cult of celebrity' culture.

44 Redacted - While The Hurt Locker's focus interestingly strips the Iraq conflict down to the soldiers in Iraq and their 'in the moment' tasks, De Palma's film is a necessary counterpoint showing the soldiers as not aloof from the discussions going on around them all the time, but instead buffeted around by various whims (political, military, sexual, social conflicts, peer pressure, familial, cultural) that they are ill equipped to handle, because the task they have to perform is fundamentally flawed from the top down. The film exposes the difficulty of keeping a country governed and just doing your job, when even just focusing on the minutae of your job itself perpetuates the cycle of violence.

Plus while it is interesting to consider the Hurt Locker through the prism of Kathryn Bigelow's previous works, Redacted itself becomes even more fascinating when compared to Casualties of War. A very valuable film, and of course an overlooked one.

49 Longford - Probably the best British drama of the decade, as much about individual perception as about decisions of 'guilt' and 'innocence', or 'culpability' and 'absolution' (or 'good' and 'evil') which have already been decided for society by the courts and the media before the film begins. The film is a valuable lesson for a society built upon secular saints and demons that general decency and kindness to everyone, as well as an attempt to understand the indefensible or those considered irredeemable, is the mark of a truly decent person. Even if you do get lambasted as naive or taken advantage of by others, doesn't that just show up their own failings more pointedly?

[reno dakota]

Zedz, maybe you can check on this title, as Moolade was #20 on my list. I was also surprised it didn't appear anywhere. Possibly got lost in the shuffle. Still even two votes seems underwhelming for this powerful film.

Moolaade did appear in the second set of also-rans. I put it on my list as well, but it seems it just didn't have enough support to place in the top 100. I doubt zedz has made a mistake here.

[cysiam]

1. Battle in Heaven - Carlos Reygadas
Reygadas gets a lot of grief for his shamelessness (and I think he walks that thin line brilliantly), but I'm still surprised none of his films made it. In Battle in Heaven, there is no light or space between the personal, the political, the religious, the cinematic and the Mexico in this film. Bunuel would have been proud.

I loved this, and just realized that I left it off my final list.

[Lemmy Caution]

Moolaade did appear in the second set of also-rans. I put it on my list as well, but it seems it just didn't have enough support to place in the top 100. I doubt zedz has made a mistake here.

Ah, thanks -- I see it now. Sorry 'bout that.
These eyes just don't skim and scan like they used to.

Top 100?
It didn't even get 100 points, or crack the first also-ran list.
Gringo, fyi, it's in the ALSO RANS -- PART TWO: EXILED: 50 – 99 POINTS in the middle, 3 places above the very long (so easy to spot) Lord of the Rings: Fellowship Of The CockRing title.

Sounds like Moolade made 3 lists (or at best placed very low on one or two others). Good film that really captures a village making choices.

9 of my 50 made the final top 100, which is more than I expected.
Though three of those were my 47th, 49th and 50th picks.

Good to see Up The Yangtze get some love. It didn't make my list, but I thought it was very well done and one of the better films to show what life is like in modern China. Blind Shaft did make my list, but not sure it got any further love. That is a terrific realist film about the seamy scramble to get ahead.

[zedz]

Zedz, maybe you can check on this title, as Moolade was #20 on my list.

You and Gringo were the only voters to place it higher than the 40s (2 other mentions).

And Sloper's right about The House of Mirth. Every vote for Of Time and the City that came in, I was mentally whining "They're voting for the wrong film!" Though I must confess that The House of Mirth ended up being bumped from my list (ahem).

[LQ]

Only two of my 50 failed to make it onto any list: The Shape of Things, and What Remains: The Life and Work of Sally Mann. I'm kind of surprised that The Shape of Things didn't appear on any of the lists, I thought that it had at least a few supporters here. As for What Remains, it is an exquisitely beautiful and very personal look into the life and creative process of photographer Sally Mann, but I imagine it might turn off anyone who is not a) already a fan or b) willing to be drawn into a documentary passionately and somewhat dogmatically in love with it's subject.

30. Once Upon a Time in Mexico - Robert Rodriguez
Yeah it's still here and I still ain't backing down.

I admit it! I love this too. My favorite of the 'Mexico Trilogy'.

[franco]

7. Los muertos - Lisandro Alonso
Will certainly be my swapsie next go around. I’m not sure I’ve seen a 2000s film with more integrity. He films real people in real surroundings and never once cheats his setting with his camera until the final shot. Zero psychology and zero shaky-cam. Like mana from heaven.

I quite like what you wrote here, Gringo. You described precisely why I consider the film a masterpiece. If I knew it wouldn't make the list, I would have ranked the film higher!! If I cared less about fairness (to my other choices) I would have included all 3 of Lisandro Alonso's pre-Liverpool films into my top 10.