David Mamet

[therewillbeblus]

Just now placing that Ellen Burstyn's granddaughter at the end of Wiener-Dog is David Mamet's daughter

She's also one of the various young women Garfield encounters in Under the Silver Lake. I didn't like Girls, and may not have even finished the first season, but there's an episode where Mamet accidentally smokes crack and Alex Karpovsky acts as her guide and I recall her killing it in that episode, which made me immediately watch out for anything she was cast in (sadly, it doesn't seem like there's been as much as I'd hoped)

[RIP Film]

Jesus, sorry I sullied the "purity" of the David Mamet thread by comparing his film and public statements to another directors similar films and public statements. Why that's verboten or bad form, I don't know. Perhaps there's a thread called "David Mamet and Tony Kaye" which I haven't seen? In that case, apologies.

I just don’t know what you mean, particularly in regard to Kaye’s public statements on teaching.

[DarkImbecile]

No reason for anyone to get their feelings hurt; tone is difficult on the Internet, try not to read comments in the worst possible light, etc. etc.

I remember contemporaneously liking Detachment because it seemed to expressionistically (if not exactly realistically) capture a bit of the sad desperation a lot of teachers in tough environments feel; that one’s probably due for a revisit a decade later. I also think Lake of Fire is one of the best documentaries so far this century, and I don’t think it betrays any particular right-wing sympathies.

[Mr Sausage]

Ignore the sock puppet, guys. Q Pete Mitchell has been banned like his previous accounts on here.

[The Elegant Dandy Fop]

I know we’re all disappointed by Mamet’s right-wing turn, but this stupid observation is less Q-Anon and more just the base of the Republican party and their endless culture war. I frankly wouldn’t be so bothered by Mamet’s right-wingism born from Zionism if he was actually provocative the way his best theater works are. Instead he’s repeating the sort of bland ideas a million other talking heads already say. Why bother listening to Mamet, a bourgeoise playwrite? The people watching Fox News are all AARP members anyway. If you believe stuff like this at this point, why not move onto the hard stuff like YouTube vlogs, InfoWars, and 8chan?

If any good is to come from this, it’s the hope that Mamet is financed to make another film again. This time by a schmuck like Ben Shapiro. Either way, I’m not sure this guy is capable of meaningful art at this point and is more interested in filling up dead airspace for a second on cable TV.

[Maltic]

The Cancellabels, written by Mamet, starring James Woods, Gina Carano, (the Stallone brothers? Vince Vaughn? Gibson? Kurt Russell?) music by Jon Hopkins and Ariel Pink

[bdsweeney]

Sorry, I know this isn't on topic ... but what has Jon Hopkins done? Just curious and quick search on the net hasn't solved the mystery.

[Maltic]

I thought he was at J6 with Ariel Pink, but I might be confusing him with someone else.

Let's say the guy from Mumford & sons instead.

Edit: It was John Maus at J6, of course. Not Jon Hopkins, my bad.

[DarkImbecile]

I know we’re all disappointed by Mamet’s right-wing turn, but this stupid observation is less Q-Anon and more just the base of the Republican party and their endless culture war.

Not sure I see the difference!

[ford]

I know we’re all disappointed by Mamet’s right-wing turn, but this stupid observation is less Q-Anon and more just the base of the Republican party and their endless culture war.

Not sure I see the difference!

Well, *both* parties in the US are waist-deep in a culture war at the moment. It's not as if the Democrats are some "party of the working class" trying to win old school social democratic programs and being met with culture war insanity as some distraction. They're both doing it -- each loves to provoke and "trigger" the other. Mamet's been a conservative forever so none of this is a surprise. (But frankly, I see a lot of what I can only call "conspiracy theories" coming out of the Democratic base as well. We're living in an era of mass hysteria.)

It's getting even worse and crazier now that more and more non-college voters are fleeing the Democratic Party for the GOP. Which means the actual working class of America is more and more evenly split between the two and which means the Democratic Party is leaning more and more heavily upon a base that is increasingly highly-educated and affluent, and thus primed for a culture war over an economic one.

This is pretty much what happened in the 1880s and 90s and then of course in the Progressive Era, when American workers were also fairly evenly split between two parties. And the well-meaning "progressive" Left was led not by a trade union movement but affluent, highly-educated and moralizing reformers burning with religious zealotry trying to tell the backwards rabble what was good for them -- only to alienate the hell out of them. Sound familiar?

The result was dumb culture wars that seem bizarre and arcane today. But it definitely kept people distracted -- some of the highest voter turnout in American history was between 1870 and 1900.

[DarkImbecile]

I don’t think there’s currently any widespread conspiracist movements among Democrats anywhere close to comparable to how the tenets of QAnon (a fantasy of murderous revenge against a ruling cabal of pedophiles) have been laundered into the mainstream of the Republican Party, to the extent people are casually equating “conservative” with “believing teachers are grooming children for abuse” here.

I’ve had many an argument with people on the left over the years re: 9/11 trutherism and anti-vax delusions, and now both of those have primarily migrated to Republicans, to say nothing of the belief that the 2020 election was stolen! Meanwhile, old-school racist conspiracies like Jewish globalists manipulating world events and great replacement theory are now openly and regularly discussed on several of the most-watched conservative media outlets.

The breadth and intensity of the collapse of reality-based thinking on the American right is really disturbing, and I don’t think there’s any equivalency at all anywhere else on the spectrum.

[therewillbeblus]

While I'm a vocal critic of what I see as my own party's regressive progressivism, DarkImbecile is right- and we liberals by and large don't "love to provoke or trigger" the Right. The typical problematic response may be to dismiss any social context and condescend to them in a way that dilutes their humanity, but it's born from a place of devastation around moral cavity meditated on consciously before any trigger-induced mean spirited outcome (though both parties’ extreme reactions are rooted in a fear of loss of values/rights), and doesn't often aim to cite specific conspiracy theories taken-as-fact that have very serious implications when widespread and adopted as truth. There's a difference between often-heard statements like "all Republicans are racist" etc. which are totally unfair but vague and reactionary, vs. "all Republicans are part of a secret organization that eats babies," or whatever the mirror version of the latest QAnon thing is

[beamish14]

I know we’re all disappointed by Mamet’s right-wing turn, but this stupid observation is less Q-Anon and more just the base of the Republican party and their endless culture war.

Not sure I see the difference!

It's getting even worse and crazier now that more and more non-college voters are fleeing the Democratic Party for the GOP.

Well, the issue is that American politics are controlled by a center-right political party with a sprinkling of progressives and a fairly homogeneous far-right/neo-fascist party. Nothing has fundamentally changed for the working class in decades, and unless there is a seismic change in people's daily lives, you'll continue to see the country slide off the cliff and into the ocean. The same goes for the U.K. (although I continue to hope that Scotland will get its act together and become an independent, E.U.-aligned nation).

Mamet's artistic slide truly is remarkable. I think many people who ardently defend his earlier works will find little of value in most of the plays he's had produced post-The Cryptogram. Ironically, one of the few I like is a pretty slight but entertaining one-act called School

[hearthesilence]

Well, the issue is that American politics are controlled by a center-right political party with a sprinkling of progressives and a fairly homogeneous far-right/neo-fascist party.

I would say American policies have been center-right for awhile now, with Reagan completely transforming our economic philosophy more than anyone else. It's partly why I've found the GOP's mutation this century all the more repulsive - in a lot of ways, they already won the war, but it's not enough and the party has been completely taken over by extremists and warped ideologues that have reduced it to a cult. Anyone sane has been driven out (often to retirement, especially after the Tea Party came in) or has been marginalized, and then there's plenty who have sold their conscience and played along in the pursuit of power.

[beamish14]

Well, the issue is that American politics are controlled by a center-right political party with a sprinkling of progressives and a fairly homogeneous far-right/neo-fascist party.

I would say American policies have been center-right for awhile now, with Reagan completely transforming our economic philosophy more than anyone else. It's partly why I've found the GOP's mutation this century all the more repulsive - in a lot of ways, they already won the war, but it's not enough and the party has been completely taken over by extremists and warped ideologues that have reduced it to a cult. Anyone sane has been driven out (often to retirement, especially after the Tea Party came in) or has been marginalized, and then there's plenty who have sold their conscience and played along in the pursuit of power.

Oh, you're certainly right about Reagan being a tipping point for the country's culture. Still, I think the Korean War might have been the catalyst that truly ensured the corporatization of American political interests, and I just don't foresee any scenarios where America has a truly viable future.

[ford]

...

[hearthesilence]

Oh, you're certainly right about Reagan being a tipping point for the country's culture. Still, I think the Korean War might have been the catalyst that truly ensured the corporatization of American political interests, and I just don't foresee any scenarios where America has a truly viable future.

I don't either, I think too many fundamental policies are now ingrained into American culture. It makes all the paranoid cries about socialism all the more laughable, though even the basic concept is ridiculous - another low point this past year was listening to someone's libertarian friend argue against seat belt laws as some kind of horrible evil. Since literally any government action is technically socialism, virtually every policy is moronically equated with some intolerable wrong. It was bad enough seeing some officials stand by that mindset when defending government inaction during Hurricane Katrina, but it seems like more people are leaning into idiocy than ever.

[denti alligator]

I say to the whackos that of course I support socialism, as do they, otherwise we wouldn‘t have the police. There‘s no way out of that bind. It‘s like watching a computer short curcuit.

[MichaelB]

The UK's seat belt laws were introduced by that notoriously Bolshevik administration led by Margaret Thatcher.

[beamish14]

I say to the whackos that of course I support socialism, as do they, otherwise we wouldn‘t have the police. There‘s no way out of that bind. It‘s like watching a computer short curcuit.

As an archconservative, she never should have allowed the state to pay for the millions her funeral arrangements cost.

I hope I live long enough to see more of those Falklands/Malvinas documents her government tried to suppress until long after her death. What better way to ensure you were keeping a small, insular government than possibly being willing to use nuclear weapons on an archipelago with a population smaller than the Los Angeles high school I graduated from?

[Brian C]

I say to the whackos that of course I support socialism, as do they, otherwise we wouldn‘t have the police. There‘s no way out of that bind. It‘s like watching a computer short curcuit.

I doubt you’ve had as many of these encounters as you’re trying to make it sound like, because even novice libertarians have an easy response to this. Libertarians in general are not a terribly bright bunch, but they’re not this stupid.

[mfunk9786]

I know we’re all disappointed by Mamet’s right-wing turn, but this stupid observation is less Q-Anon and more just the base of the Republican party and their endless culture war.

Not sure I see the difference!

Well, *both* parties in the US are waist-deep in a culture war at the moment. It's not as if the Democrats are some "party of the working class" trying to win old school social democratic programs and being met with culture war insanity as some distraction. They're both doing it -- each loves to provoke and "trigger" the other. Mamet's been a conservative forever so none of this is a surprise. (But frankly, I see a lot of what I can only call "conspiracy theories" coming out of the Democratic base as well. We're living in an era of mass hysteria.)

It's getting even worse and crazier now that more and more non-college voters are fleeing the Democratic Party for the GOP. Which means the actual working class of America is more and more evenly split between the two and which means the Democratic Party is leaning more and more heavily upon a base that is increasingly highly-educated and affluent, and thus primed for a culture war over an economic one.

This is pretty much what happened in the 1880s and 90s and then of course in the Progressive Era, when American workers were also fairly evenly split between two parties. And the well-meaning "progressive" Left was led not by a trade union movement but affluent, highly-educated and moralizing reformers burning with religious zealotry trying to tell the backwards rabble what was good for them -- only to alienate the hell out of them. Sound familiar?

The result was dumb culture wars that seem bizarre and arcane today. But it definitely kept people distracted -- some of the highest voter turnout in American history was between 1870 and 1900.

Great post, fwiw.

[denti alligator]

I say to the whackos that of course I support socialism, as do they, otherwise we wouldn‘t have the police. There‘s no way out of that bind. It‘s like watching a computer short curcuit.

I doubt you’ve had as many of these encounters as you’re trying to make it sound like, because even novice libertarians have an easy response to this. Libertarians in general are not a terribly bright bunch, but they’re not this stupid.

No, not libertarians, only less-than-smart relatives who think they‘re mainstream Republicans. Just curious, though, what is the libertarian response?

[hearthesilence]

It probably depends on the person, but I know one who believes the police have too much power (and I recall him belittling "defund the police" arguments with the claim that libertarians like him have been crying out for the same thing for years). Then I know another who, despite being libertarian on most issues, was actually very much pro-police and was very much against Black Lives Matters - I can't say for sure why, but they also come off as a closet bigot for a number of reasons I won't go into here. (Neither one of these individuals was the same one who argued against seat belt laws so I can't say if they're in agreement.)

[Brian C]

No, not libertarians, only less-than-smart relatives who think they‘re mainstream Republicans. Just curious, though, what is the libertarian response?

This makes even less sense, because there's no reason that government provision of public services would be inconsistent with "mainstream Republican" ideology, and especially a strong police force is hardly inconsistent with the fascist ideology that is more and more taking over the GOP. You're implying a contradiction that doesn't exist. Again, I have to doubt that you've shut down as many would-be debate partners as you claim, because this is just really easy stuff to respond to.

(For that matter, to argue that police = socialism in the first place ... I mean, what are we even doing here)

Anyway, the standard libertarian response to this alleged conundrum of yours is that the legitimate purpose of the state is to protect private property rights. Even in the libertarian worldview, there's a place for police and courts, which is probably why hearthesilence's friend was pro-police during the BLM riots (aside from and/or in addition to any racist motives). Some will argue that even the police can and should be privatized as well, and of course there's a long history of private police forces in this country and around the world. So it sounds like a terrible idea to me but sadly probably not as impractical as I wish it was.