Game of Thrones & House of the Dragon

Discuss TV shows old and new.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
jbeall
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:22 am
Location: Atlanta-ish

Re: Game of Thrones

#51 Post by jbeall » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:14 am

And what a job he did on it, too! I'm trying to think of another tv show that's done a comparable action scene, and while the stash-house raid in True Detective matches it in technical virtuosity, it falls short in terms of scale and sweep.
SpoilerShow
The long pan around the battle in Castle Black was particularly terrific, both in terms of direction and choreography. I was a little surprised at how unaffected I was by Ygritte's death, but the scene where Jon and Sam find the bodies of their six brothers and the giant in the tunnel was full of pathos.

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: Game of Thrones

#52 Post by domino harvey » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:09 pm


User avatar
dwk
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm

Re: Game of Thrones

#53 Post by dwk » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:37 pm

No Spoilers in the following video, but the comments section, of course, is full of them.
Game of Thrones Happy Father's Day video

User avatar
Shrew
The Untamed One
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:22 am

Re: Game of Thrones

#54 Post by Shrew » Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:17 pm

So, any overall thoughts on the season? I have to say, as much as I enjoyed a lot of this season, it was probably my least favorite so far. There were some poor adaptation choices *cough*episode 3*cough* and a push toward making every individual scene *big* at the cost of episodic coherence.

I did really like the final episode though, even if had some really awful distracting editing in a certain early conversation.

User avatar
Murdoch
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:59 pm
Location: Upstate NY

Re: Game of Thrones

#55 Post by Murdoch » Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:49 am

It was actually my favorite, although I haven't read any of the books. Maybe it's just because I finally knew everybody's name so keeping track of all the storylines was much less of a chore, or maybe I'm just a sadist...

User avatar
Feiereisel
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:41 am

Re: Game of Thrones

#56 Post by Feiereisel » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:53 am

Shrew wrote:So, any overall thoughts on the season? I have to say, as much as I enjoyed a lot of this season, it was probably my least favorite so far. There were some poor adaptation choices *cough*episode 3*cough* and a push toward making every individual scene *big* at the cost of episodic coherence.

I did really like the final episode though, even if had some really awful distracting editing in a certain early conversation.
I haven't read the novels, so I can't speak to adaptation issues, but for me the middle section of this season a was slog. The jockeying for the throne isn't quite wheel-spinning, but it's definitely stagnant and not as dynamic as it was in the first couple of seasons. It's thickening out the show in a way I find insubstantial, though that may be part of the creators' long-term design for the show. I've got a whole theory:
Whackado Spoiler RamblingsShow
I'm convinced that the quagmire of the war for the Iron Throne is distracting us (and many of the characters) from a larger-scale conflict that's going to play out at the end of the series between the humans and the multitudinous monster men from beyond the wall.

I suspect Martin (and Benioff and Weiss by extension) are using this gritty "real word" style of fantasy storytelling in the early seasons to then redeem and more importantly earn traditional (i.e. "magical") fantasy elements in the show's upcoming seasons. More traditional fantasy elements have already been woven into the narrative tapestry, but in small ways that only a few characters are aware of.

Also, characters who separate themselves from the power struggle at King's Landing and hint at recognizing the larger forces in play frequently find out important things about the way the world of show works--the remaining Starks, and those close to them, especially. Characters who chase the throne or personal revenge tend to end up dead. This isn't strictly true, but seems at least somewhat consistent. As these elements converge or diverge, the show becomes much more engaging and enjoyable for me--this is one of the reasons I think the last few episodes of this season worked so well.
Anyway, back on track:

I thought the last three episodes really whipped the season into shape, either wrapping up or pivoting some of the show's less engaging plot threads into new and interesting places. Everything in those episodes felt significant to the characters in them as well as the show as a whole. It finally felt like the rubber was meeting the road from a narrative perspective, and I absolutely relished that.

As usual, the show's visual sensibilities remain excellent, both in terms of cinematography and the visual effects work--though I'll second you on the occasional absence of editing logic. The performances are also incredibly consistent for a show with such sprawling cast. That's not the most original comment on the show, but it's absolutely one of its greatest strengths. More Diana Rigg in season five, please; she keeps King's Landing out of daytime soap territory.

My misgivings with the show tend to be with choices made on the creative level. By far, the element of this season which rankled me the most was Daenerys' story arc. That she had to constantly justify everything she did to her inner circle drove me nuts--it felt padded and basic given the meager (if thematically and emotionally resonant) payoff. It also struck me as a very clumsy way of challenging her agency and authority as a character--her dragons did a far better and more efficient job of this than the human characters through the season's sagging middle section. This season especially, she seemed less like a character than a game piece being withheld by an invisible hand for greater use in later seasons, similar to the Theon's arc through this and last season. That kind of time-biding is grating because it draws attention to the fact that the story is, as of now, unresolved on the macro-level.

On balance, I still think it's a good piece of television, though I perhaps enjoy the conversations I'm having about it more than the show itself. Regardless, I'm highly anticipating season five, so...that'll do, premium cable drama. That'll do.

criterion10

Re: Game of Thrones

#57 Post by criterion10 » Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:10 pm

I thought this season had some ups and downs -- the main problem for me was that, with the exception of the King's Landing plot, many of the storylines simply felt lacking and nowhere near as good nor developed as they were in the prior season. (With the exception of the climactic battle, the scenes at The Wall did little for me. And even Daenerys' situation felt rather uninteresting for what I feel is one of the show's most interesting characters.)

Having said that, I thought the finale was surprisingly great, a large part of this being due to the inclusion of many great characters who felt rather absent throughout the season (Arya, Brienne, Brandon, and so on).

User avatar
movielocke
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am

Re: Game of Thrones

#58 Post by movielocke » Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:14 pm

I think it is their strongest season, but I'm really surprised at how much of book 3 they adapted in this season. I always thought they'd wrap up the rest of the book 3 storylines (other than the storylines at the wall) by episode 4 (meaning I expected to see Arya doing what she does in the last shot of this season at the end of episode 4), and they still have four chapters of book 3 left at the wall (but these should be wrapped up in 1-2 episodes, I think).

they did basically include all of Brienne's storyline from Book 4 in this season--but the possibility is that they're doing it out of order and they'll have her travelogue endless repetition of 'go to a new city, hear the history of the city, feel sorry for someone,' included in next season. I really hope they've cut it completely because it is by far the weakest, most meandering, drawn out plotline in all five books.

It's also interesting that season 4 included nothing from the Dorne storyline or the Iron Islands storyline from the beginning of book 4. These two storylines are moderately notorious because about 2/3 of them take place during the same time frame as the end of book 3. Martin used to call them his '250 page prologue' when he was first writing AFFC, because he had to catch those stories up to the events from the red wedding to the end of book three. Eventually he just sort of tossed the timeline and let the 250 page prologue be divided up dramatically with the rest of the storylines (since they weren't intersecting anyway) but I had thought they'd adapt some or most of both of those storylines to fill out the rest of season four. They didn't, and that just adds more to pack into next season. It's especially irritating given the sheer stupidity and time waste of Yara/Asha's plot to rescue Theon. On the other hand they did bring Theon's story from the beginning of Book five forward into this season, and it arguably corresponds somewhat with that. Theon seems to be a character I'd always considered minor (and good riddance) at the end of book two (I thought he was dead and was surprised when he returned in book five) but the show's intense focus on him seems to suggest he's as important as Gollum (and the parallels seem to be there too).

I'm mystified how they plan on getting all of books four and five and some of six into next season. I think they will have to have some of six because Martin ended every storyline at the end of both books four and five with dramatically unsatisfying/infuriating cliffhangers... I'm not even sure cliffhanger is the right word, there is only one good climax in either book since his editor decided to cut out the climaxes of two massive storylines, the books just sort of end. Like imagine if they had ended any of the first three TV seasons at episode 8, or ended this season at episode seven, you'd just scratch your head and go, 'what the fuck?' dramatically the two books sucked balls, no climax, no resolution to internal storylines, just build up and build up and no release. Compared to the superb dramatic balance and internal cohesion of the other three books, it's a startling difference.

User avatar
jindianajonz
Jindiana Jonz Abrams
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:11 pm

Re: Game of Thrones

#59 Post by jindianajonz » Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:31 pm

So I think my favorite crazy conspiracy theory of the last six months is
spoilers for all five booksShow
The new High Septon that torments Cersei is actually Howland Reed. It helps explains what is going on with the biggest character yet to actually feature in the book, and is has some great resonance with the Great Northern Conspiracy and the Jon Snow is Rhaegar and Lyanna's Son theories. If the latter is true, Howland Reed is the only person left alive that knows the truth of Jon's parentage, and it's been speculated that the High Septon has the power to legitimize bastards. I'm not sure if this is explicitly stated, but Clash of Kings explains that the High Septon could have invalidated Aemon's oath to the Nights Watch and made him king, so they certainly have quite a bit of power over succession. And while having a similar appearance may seem like flimsy evidence, Martin is pretty big on using character descriptions to reveal surprises- its how we found out that the two men Arya overheard in the dungeon of the first book were Varys and Illyrio, and it's also how we know the man who killed Pate and took his place in Old Town is actually Jaqen H'ghar. The biggest point against this theory that I've seen is somebody who claimed that the books describe Howland as having mossy green eyes like Jojen, while the High Septon has brown eyes, but I've yet to see this passage actually excerpted.

criterion10

Re: Game of Thrones

#60 Post by criterion10 » Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:02 pm

movielocke wrote:I think it is their strongest season, but I'm really surprised at how much of book 3 they adapted in this season. I always thought they'd wrap up the rest of the book 3 storylines (other than the storylines at the wall) by episode 4 (meaning I expected to see Arya doing what she does in the last shot of this season at the end of episode 4), and they still have four chapters of book 3 left at the wall (but these should be wrapped up in 1-2 episodes, I think).
Interesting. I haven't read any of the books, but I think that this season could have benefited from tightening many of the storylines, many of which felt stretched out, and including more events from the later books. This could have also helped further develop some of the lacking storylines, like Arya's and even Brienne's. Those particular stories bothered me this season, mainly because they felt so strong and well developed in Season 3, only to become virtually non-existent this season.

I should also add, the other issue I had with this season was that it seemed as though many significant plot points were introduced, only to not really go anywhere of substance. I'm thinking mainly of the brief scene we see between Margaery and Tommen, and even the possible love interest between Daenerys and Daario and even Missandei and Grey Worm. I'm not sure if these incidents develop into anything more in the novels, though again, it was odd to see time devoted to these moments, when nothing comes to fruition.

Ultimately, based on your description above, it doesn't surprise me that the remainder of Book 3 was stretched out to fill the majority of this season. It did feel at times like the writers were trying to pad the show's 10 episode season.
movielocke wrote:They didn't, and that just adds more to pack into next season. It's especially irritating given the sheer stupidity and time waste of Yara/Asha's plot to rescue Theon. On the other hand they did bring Theon's story from the beginning of Book five forward into this season, and it arguably corresponds somewhat with that. Theon seems to be a character I'd always considered minor (and good riddance) at the end of book two (I thought he was dead and was surprised when he returned in book five) but the show's intense focus on him seems to suggest he's as important as Gollum (and the parallels seem to be there too).
Theon's storyline last season felt rather drawn out, especially considering that we merely watch him get tortured for an entire season. Though, there was something rather dark and disturbing about it that always intrigued me. Having said that, his character this season yet again felt like another individual who was reduced only to a few key scenes, without having any major arc or storyline.

User avatar
movielocke
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am

Re: Game of Thrones

#61 Post by movielocke » Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:12 pm

criterion10 wrote: I'm thinking mainly of the brief scene we see between Margaery and Tommen.
That scene to me suggests a possible plot direction that either departs from the books or will spoil an unknown outcome from book six. The scene explicitly shows us Margaery and Tommon having contact, something we never see in the books. If something like that was happening offscreen in the books it indicates plausible answers to unresolved questions.

It's sort of like how the scene at the end of 404 explicitly shows us something we never see in the books--though at several points in the books that scene is implied by explicit statements about who the white walkers are.

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: Game of Thrones

#62 Post by domino harvey » Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:03 pm

It's hard to imagine she has any idea what's going on, but the Queen and her escorts visited the Game of Thrones set

User avatar
jindianajonz
Jindiana Jonz Abrams
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:11 pm

Re: Game of Thrones

#63 Post by jindianajonz » Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:53 pm

domino harvey wrote:It's hard to imagine she has any idea what's going on, but the Queen and her escorts visited the Game of Thrones set
"'Game of Thrones'? Back at Buckingham we just call it 'Musical chairs.'"

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: Game of Thrones

#64 Post by domino harvey » Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:27 pm

Some internet speculation on one character's true lineage gets more fuel (Trying to be unspoilery here, though if you hover over the link you'll start to figure it out anyways)
SpoilerShow
I can't say I'm super surprised, as I figured out midway through the books that things were ultimately being set up for a Daenerys vs Jon Snow vs White Walkers/Northern threat showdown (Fire and Ice, duh)

User avatar
movielocke
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am

Re: Game of Thrones

#65 Post by movielocke » Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:56 pm

Climax/Finale/Ending of BOOK Five, A DANCE WITH DRAGONS Spoiled…Show
Does it matter who Jon Snow's parents are? Ultimately, he dies (not much good as an undead leader or lover, unless being undead makes him more of a villain, or more of a calculating emotionless utilitarian, which sounds villainous). Jon Snow inheriting anything, or being the secret prince who gets to hero-win in the end just thematically and stylistically feels so completely out of step with Martin's approach and the rest of the series. Far more likely is that Jon never finds out, or he does find out and decides he doesn't care, that he chooses duty over desire once again. And know he won't have it nobly forced upon him, anymore than Aemon had it nobly forced upon him. And all this is presuming that he's alive or will be resurrected. Remember, he made all the same mistakes Ned Stark made in King's Landing, he had a good heart, made good hearted decisions, but the politics and the tactics and strategies of politics were totally beyond his ken, and he was killed because of all his absolutely terrible political decisions. I cannot wait to see what people who haven't read the books think of his decision to heroically win against the wildlings at the end of season four only to throw away that victory and allow the wildlings to win by coming through the wall in season five. :-p

And theorizing here, it seems as though Dany is fated for death as well. Based on the show's version of the House of the Undying, Dany passes willingly beneath the wall, alone, and there she dies (ie she finds her dead husband and her dead infant son). In the book prophecy, she's told 'to reach the light you must pass beneath the shadow,' well the only magical light we've encountered so far is Bran's curtain of light seen in the heart of winter, and the magical curtain of light hovering atop the castle of the night king seen in the show--I suppose the Wall could be a shadow, so if Dany is going to reach the light at the heart of winter, she'll have to pass beneath the Wall (shadow). In other words, she wins the war by acting as a willing human sacrifice to WINTER, like the Prince of Pentos is a human sacrifice made to nature because of poor outcomes of the seasons or harvests; in my opinion, that's what the "Prince-who-was-Promised" is really about, the Prince/Sacrifice who was Promised to end Winter. Not a kickass hero swinging his sword and slaughtering mostly innocent peasant hordes, but more of a Wrath of Kahn, "good of the many outweigh the needs of the one" ending that benefits both sides equally.


User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: Game of Thrones

#67 Post by domino harvey » Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:11 pm

Actor portraying Ser Denys Mallister collapses and dies after filming first scenes for the new season


User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: Game of Thrones

#69 Post by domino harvey » Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:32 pm


User avatar
knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: Game of Thrones

#70 Post by knives » Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:39 pm

Not too surprising since around this point (hell, before it) the books dropped a lot of characters to come back later.

User avatar
Jean-Luc Garbo
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 1:55 am
Contact:

Re: Game of Thrones

#71 Post by Jean-Luc Garbo » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:05 pm

knives wrote:Not too surprising since around this point (hell, before it) the books dropped a lot of characters to come back later.
Yeah, if they stayed solely with the events in A Feast For Crows there'd be no Tyrion in season five.


User avatar
dwk
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm

Re: Game of Thrones

#73 Post by dwk » Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:20 pm


User avatar
dwk
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm

Re: Game of Thrones

#74 Post by dwk » Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:19 pm

New Season 5 trailer that was presented at the announcement of HBO Now/Apple deal

Season 5 to be simulcast in over 170 countries
In an unprecedented move, Game of Thrones® will premiere in over 170 countries and territories across the globe simultaneously with HBO’s U.S. airing on Sunday, April 12 at 9:00pm ET, it was announced today by HBO. The entire fifth season of the Emmy®-, Golden Globe®- and Peabody®-winning series will be simulcast to HBO branded networks and broadcast partners across the world, creating a global television event week after week throughout the season’s 10-episode run.
...
Among those participating are the HBO branded networks: HBO Asia, HBO Canada, HBO Europe, HBO Latin America, HBO Netherlands and HBO Nordic.

Also included are international “Home of HBO” services including: Africa/M-Net, Australia/Foxtel, Belgium(Flemish)/Telenet, France/Orange, Iceland/365 Media, Israel/DBS, Sky Deutschland, Sky Italia and SKY New Zealand. HBO licensing partners in the simulcast include: Belgium(French)/Betv, Greece/Intervision, Russia/Amedia and Spain/DTS.

User avatar
YnEoS
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:30 am

Re: Game of Thrones

#75 Post by YnEoS » Mon May 25, 2015 9:33 am

How are people feeling about this season so far? I find most of the storylines pretty interesting so far, but overall this season feels a lot more grim than usual. Obviously that's been one of the strengths of the series so far in that actions can have consequences and characters go through very big changes, but this season the balance feels a bit off for me. I've felt like we've been due for a little bit of an up swing in mood this season, but so far it's been rather rough going, and ever since Season 4 episode 8, I have to admit I've become a lot more squeamish about the violence in the show possibly taking a turn for the worst at any moment.

I know a lot of people have decided to quit the show during this season, I'm so attached to most of these characters that I'll probably stick through to the end. But I really hope this season ends on a somewhat more positive note, or at least leave us with some good character pairings to balance out the tone.

Post Reply