Twin Peaks

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mfunk9786
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Re: Twin Peaks

#576 Post by mfunk9786 » Thu May 25, 2017 3:23 pm

tenia wrote:While these 4 episodes are quite incredible pieces (episode 3 notably), I found them to drag quite a lot, almost running on fumes. Everything seems to be purposely slowed down, not so much as a way to be artful or playful, but just to stretch what didn't need to be.
Watch them again. I did have concerns about the pace on my first run through (even though I ultimately find these episodes to all be near-perfect) but watching them again, they fly by.

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Re: Twin Peaks

#577 Post by teddyleevin » Thu May 25, 2017 3:41 pm

I watched the premiere at a (very polite) bar with a large group of people after winning 1st prize in their costume contest as Leland, and then we went home and watched the next two as a group of 5. Lynch loves his films on a big screen and is a big proponent of "every screening is different" philosophy (self-evident, I know, but he really hates TV and the small screen).

Having a crowd atmosphere for this definitely improves investment and helps the comedy. Riotous laughter somewhere in all four episodes from our group (all of whom are ride-or-die TP devotees). Rewatched them all alone and didn't get quite the same laughs but definitely spent my time enjoying the frame and the details. The pacing is really joyous and I can't believe the episodes end when they do.

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tenia
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Re: Twin Peaks

#578 Post by tenia » Thu May 25, 2017 4:45 pm

I think it's not so much a question of pace than a question of substance. I wouldn't mind these stretched elements if I had the feeling they were part of inclusive sequences. Instead, they feel forced and too often pointless, while the Lynchian nightmarish sequences are extremely good but feel more like independant short movies than supporting an underlying story.
mfunk9786 wrote:Watch them again.
While I certainly won't stop the season there, I honestly just don't see myself sitting through them again soon. Or at least, not without fast forwarding many sequences.

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Re: Twin Peaks

#579 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Thu May 25, 2017 7:45 pm

Lynch received a standing ovation at the Cannes premiere tonight.

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knives
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Re: Twin Peaks

#580 Post by knives » Thu May 25, 2017 10:38 pm

I saw they first two episodes last night (I get the sense from the end credits that the whole season could easily play as a long movie with the television aspect totally obscure). More than scary, weird, or even funny this is so incredibly sad. The Lillard storyline nearly had me in tears and even something as simple as the loglady has this incredible sadness to it as if ultimately this big thing 25 years ago amounted to a forgotten dream and time has exhausted everyone. Hell the forgetful lady, which is classic Lynch dorky farcical comedy, somehow managed to make me feel down. It's also interesting in how Lynch is repeating himself. The Lillard storyline, my favorite so far, is playing out as more direct Lost Highway while that box reminded me of Premonition Following an Evil Deed. Actually that title is probably good summary of Lynch's output. While obviously not every film follows this path a surprising number from Eraserhead to now including Twin Peaks is about someone creating a fantasy to disassociate themselves from an act of cruelty they have committed. That is being handled pretty literally with Lillard and bit more humourously in New York, but I wonder what this means for Cooper who has been living so long as two people.

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Re: Twin Peaks

#581 Post by oh yeah » Fri May 26, 2017 8:40 am

I agree knives - these episodes have been difficult to watch for me at times, in an odd way that I didn't quite realize until I found myself haunted by them some time after viewing. Even the more comedic and less menacing Episodes 3 and 4 still unsettle me even as they make me laugh - something about Coop's journey thus far is just immensely sad. And there is not only a sadness but also a more sober and contemplative tone to these episodes, which changes a lot about the way the show moves and feels, and further ensures that it'll disappoint anyone foolishly looking for a cozy copy of the original series. Perhaps it's largely the difference between Lynch at age 45, riding a wave of hype and accolades to the top (however brief that stay was), and Lynch at age 70, disillusioned by a film industry he doesn't recognize anymore and which has little to no use for him.

These episodes defy easy categorization, judgment, and just about everything else, but I have loved so much of what I've seen and heard. And I am amazed that this is something that exists, that it's television, from the same network that brought us Dexter, no less. It's really in many ways just as experimental and challenging as about anything Lynch has done before -- with perhaps only Inland Empire beating it on those terms. The first stretch of Episode 3, though, for example -- certainly that's far closer to Inland or Eraserhead than it is to the original series.

There's so much to be said but I'll cut it short. Two more things:
1) Cera is brilliant and it somehow only dawned on me on second viewing just how hilarious that scene is in a perfectly Peaks-ian, deadpan way.
2) The casino sequence immediately ranks with my favorite Lynch moments. "HULLL-OOOOOOOO!"

Can't imagine what the remaining 14 hours have in store for us.

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Re: Twin Peaks

#582 Post by mfunk9786 » Fri May 26, 2017 10:29 am

knives wrote:While obviously not every film follows this path a surprising number from Eraserhead to now including Twin Peaks is about someone creating a fantasy to disassociate themselves from an act of cruelty they have committed.
This is a really fascinating way to put it. Perhaps it's my bleeding heart tendencies, but I've always seen it less as a fantasy created by the person committing the act of cruelty than as a metaphysical way of explaining the ways that evil can manifest itself in otherwise normal people without their choosing it. So long as we're speaking about things in Twin Peaks that make us very emotional, Leland's deliberately vague story about Bob flicking matches at him when he was a child absolutely breaks my heart and makes me cry just to think about. I'm not so sure that he (or Laura, if she had lived) had a choice in allowing Bob into them.

How I'm to interpret Lynch's subtext changes a lot if I imagine that he is himself a good person who does not cause anyone harm, rather than imagine that he is secretly a very bad person. I suspect I'll never know that since I'm not particularly interested in his personal life, but the intention of his work changes for me if it moves from fear or sadness over evil in the world to trying to make excuses for his own cruelties. And again, I am not trying to imply anything by that - but it does seem like a rare instance where someone's personal conduct would make a huge impact on how one is to interpret their art, and I'd be much more in your camp were it the latter.

He's always just struck me as someone who is very frightened by things that most people see as very banal.

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Re: Twin Peaks

#583 Post by Forrest Taft » Fri May 26, 2017 11:24 am

knives wrote:I saw they first two episodes last night (I get the sense from the end credits that the whole season could easily play as a long movie with the television aspect totally obscure). More than scary, weird, or even funny this is so incredibly sad. The Lillard story line nearly had me in tears and even something as simple as the log lady has this incredible sadness to it as if ultimately this big thing 25 years ago amounted to a forgotten dream and time has exhausted everyone. Hell the forgetful lady, which is classic Lynch dorky farcical comedy, somehow managed to make me feel down.
SpoilerShow
Lillard is my favourite new cast member so far, and I'm interested in where they're going with his character. It wasn't until the second viewing I noticed that whatever info evil Coop is sending Ray & Darya to get is from Hastings' secretary. Could be he meant the wife, could be he meant Lillard. It also took a second viewing for me to recognize Phoebe Augustine and Balthazar Getty.

Seeing the very frail Coulson was strangely moving, and what adds to the sadness is that the episodes are dedicated to actors who has passed on in the past 25 years. The dedications are tied to the episodes in which these actors makes their first appearance on screen: Episode 1 was dedicated to Catherine Coulson, episode 2 to Frank Silva, and episode 3 to Don S. Davis and Miguel Ferrer.

The first two episodes reminds me of the first 90 minutes or so Mulholland Dr. more than anything else, particularly in the way Lynch & Frost introduces the mysteries, in all of these very atmospheric, seemingly unrelated scenes. I love the mood of this new season so much. Also, I still haven't given up hope for a surprise appearance from David Bowie. Philip Jeffries seems to a very central character in this season.

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Re: Twin Peaks

#584 Post by pzadvance » Fri May 26, 2017 5:37 pm


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Petty Bourgeoisie
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Re: Twin Peaks

#585 Post by Petty Bourgeoisie » Sat May 27, 2017 12:35 am

Peronally I hope Wally figures more prominently in future episodes. Also, Does anyone else get an ASMR vibe to many of the scenes? Dr. Jacoby spray painting shovels, the low drones of a casino, etc.

The scariest part, so far, was the doppelgangers prison interview. Something about that roboticized voice saying "Hello old friend" and "Gordon, I never really left home". Chilling.

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knives
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Re: Twin Peaks

#586 Post by knives » Sat May 27, 2017 11:02 am

mfunk9786 wrote:
knives wrote:While obviously not every film follows this path a surprising number from Eraserhead to now including Twin Peaks is about someone creating a fantasy to disassociate themselves from an act of cruelty they have committed.
This is a really fascinating way to put it. Perhaps it's my bleeding heart tendencies, but I've always seen it less as a fantasy created by the person committing the act of cruelty than as a metaphysical way of explaining the ways that evil can manifest itself in otherwise normal people without their choosing it. So long as we're speaking about things in Twin Peaks that make us very emotional, Leland's deliberately vague story about Bob flicking matches at him when he was a child absolutely breaks my heart and makes me cry just to think about. I'm not so sure that he (or Laura, if she had lived) had a choice in allowing Bob into them.

How I'm to interpret Lynch's subtext changes a lot if I imagine that he is himself a good person who does not cause anyone harm, rather than imagine that he is secretly a very bad person. I suspect I'll never know that since I'm not particularly interested in his personal life, but the intention of his work changes for me if it moves from fear or sadness over evil in the world to trying to make excuses for his own cruelties. And again, I am not trying to imply anything by that - but it does seem like a rare instance where someone's personal conduct would make a huge impact on how one is to interpret their art, and I'd be much more in your camp were it the latter.

He's always just struck me as someone who is very frightened by things that most people see as very banal.
I think I agree with your positive and negative conclusions. This is really obvious with the biographical details of Eraserhead, but I think it is the mundane acts of cruelty that really disturb Lynch less so than some of the more obviously evil stuff perhaps, running with your statements, because he is more capable of them. That seems to be the explicit text of Blue Velvet for instance where Frank's ultimate evil is shown as a hyperbolic doppelgänger of the lead's more harmless seeming perversions. The beautiful robin eating the worm.

Going back to Twin Peaks the central evils are of course as bad as they come, but the sadness makes them seem born out of much more ordinary things. With Coop it is the will to do good that ultimately banishes him to evil and with the Palmer family it is a cycle of people unable to turn against their evil inclinations. Basically I see Lynch the artist as a good person too aware of where he treads evil such as the horror he felt about the horror he felt upon seeing his daughter for the first time.

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Re: Twin Peaks

#587 Post by Lost Highway » Mon May 29, 2017 4:18 am

I can honestly say that I'm loving every second if this and I can't relate to complaints that this drags or is boring in places. Many of Lynch's films are deliberately paced. If you enjoy entering his universe like I do, then not a moment feels wasted. I've only watched the first two episodes so far and I'm now tempted to wait till this has finished and binge it over several nights. I think this is better than the original series, where I felt that the Lynch episodes were head and above the rest, much of which felt like Ersatz-Lynch. Not really interested in analyzing so far, Lynch hits me best on an intuitive, irrational level. I'm so happy he is back.

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mfunk9786
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Re: Twin Peaks

#588 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon May 29, 2017 5:32 am

I hope you'll decide to continue on and react as new episodes air like a lot of us here will be. It will be great to hear your thoughts.

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Re: Twin Peaks

#589 Post by Lost Highway » Mon May 29, 2017 5:50 am

mfunk9786 wrote:I hope you'll decide to continue on and react as new episodes air like a lot of us here will be. It will be great to hear your thoughts.
I can already feel my resolve cracking and I'll probably dive into 3&4 this evening. I suppose I can also watch the whole series a second time when a Blu-ray is out.

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Re: Twin Peaks

#590 Post by Peter-H » Mon May 29, 2017 3:56 pm

Some people don't like the digital filming style, but I think it works. A lot of Lynch's stuff has an air of fakeness and artificiality to them what with the purposely stilted acting style and the way they're shot, and the digital photography really adds to that feeling — things just don't feel quite "right," and I like that.

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Re: Twin Peaks

#591 Post by dda1996a » Mon May 29, 2017 5:17 pm

Having just watched Eraserhead on 35mm I have to disagree. I always find digital effects unbelievable, while real ones always completely pull me in. All those effects in Eraserhead, Elephant Man, Lost Highway make all those nightmares vivid. Just watching that thing in Eraserhead makes everything much more visceral and pulls me into the mystery world much more than digital fakeness that always makes me aware of it being an effect.

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Re: Twin Peaks

#592 Post by Ribs » Mon May 29, 2017 5:21 pm

But surely a lot of what Lynch is going for with his use of digital here and in Inland Empire is the inherent terror possible by this unvarnished artifice of the digital medium? It is not real, and that's the most horrifying thing of all.

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Re: Twin Peaks

#593 Post by dda1996a » Mon May 29, 2017 5:24 pm

But I object, because what's so horrific about Blue Velvet, original Peaks and Mulholland is that all of that is just around the corner. The fact that there is evil all around us is what makes it so horrific, at least for me. That while I may live in a picturesque suburbia, there is mysterious unknown evil forces around me gets me wound up.

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Re: Twin Peaks

#594 Post by Mr Sausage » Mon May 29, 2017 6:13 pm

I think what they're referring to is the nightmarish, unsettling wrongness of the digital images, which seem both tangible and entirely outside physical reality. This is a legitimate effect.

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Re: Twin Peaks

#595 Post by Lost Highway » Mon May 29, 2017 6:52 pm

The effects aren't just digital, they have an 80s pop promo quality to them and they definitely are a conscious style decision which has a Brechtian quality. By not disguising the fakeness, Lynch creates something that is effectively "other" from special effects which strive for naturalism. It's an interesting decision to make CGI look deliberately rough when it usually strives for photorealism.

Nothing Lynch has done has reminded me so much of his early films as this new Twin Peaks. There are moments which remind me of his shorts like The Grandmother, which also never tried for realistism in its effects, Eraserhead and when Agent Cooper sees an erupting ink cloud coming towards him, it appears to be a callback to a The Elephant Man dream sequence.

Anyways, I watched episode 3 tonight which is full of these effects and then realized that in Germany, where I now live, episode 4 isn't available for streaming yet. So I finally rewatched the pilot of the original Twin Peaks. I'm now going to try and rewatch the entire original series, which I haven't rewatched the mid-90s, to tide me over between episodes. I've had the blu-ray set for a while and never got round to it.

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Twin Peaks

#596 Post by Mr Sausage » Mon May 29, 2017 7:21 pm

I think the body in the bed is the best test case for what Lynch might be doing. Ask yourself: is there any reason for that not to be a practical effect? It's a really weird thing to do with CGI because there are no real technical or budgetary limitations for something like that. It's an easy, common practical effect; it's the kind of thing effects houses have stored in their shops, ready to go when some show or movie needs a headless body. And Lynch is not a compromise filmmaker, anyway. He doesn't just make do with shitty CGI when what he envisioned was something else.

So the only reason for that to be CGI is because Lynch specifically wanted it to look that way and no other way. And I think I know what effect he was going for. At first, I thought I wasn't seeing the body properly, somehow; then I realized it was CGI and was unimpressed and puzzled. But the longer I looked at it, the more unsettled I became, like everything was wrong, like what should've been normal and what everyone else was treating as normal was in fact unplaceably and obscurely wrong. That really creeped me out, and creeped me out in a way that would've been impossible with a prop body. I've seen lots of prop bodies. That weird, fuzzy, 2D looking thing, tho'...

So, yeah, I think Lynch knows what he's doing.

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tenia
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Re: Twin Peaks

#597 Post by tenia » Tue May 30, 2017 4:15 am

Lost Highway wrote:By not disguising the fakeness, Lynch creates something that is effectively "other" from special effects which strive for naturalism. It's an interesting decision to make CGI look deliberately rough when it usually strives for photorealism.
That's precisely why they didn't bothered me so much. They were other-world-y which seemed very appropriate.
I'm much less convinced by the smooth cheap digital-looking photography (notably the shaky-cam Coop in space shots), especially during exterior shots. It's clearly different than what Lynch and his team achieved on Blue Velvet, Lost Highway, Wild at Heart, Mulholland Dr and the first 2 seasons of Twin Peaks, and I found those to work better in this regard.

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Re: Twin Peaks

#598 Post by Lost Highway » Tue May 30, 2017 4:28 am

tenia wrote:
Lost Highway wrote:By not disguising the fakeness, Lynch creates something that is effectively "other" from special effects which strive for naturalism. It's an interesting decision to make CGI look deliberately rough when it usually strives for photorealism.
That's precisely why they didn't bothered me so much. They were other-world-y which seemed very appropriate.
I'm much less convinced by the smooth cheap digital-looking photography (notably the shaky-cam Coop in space shots), especially during exterior shots. It's clearly different than what Lynch and his team achieved on Blue Velvet, Lost Highway, Wild at Heart, Mulholland Dr and the first 2 seasons of Twin Peaks, and I found those to work better in this regard.
I love those falling through space shots, their flatness perfectly captures the feel of another dimension. Again, it reminds me of something like The Grandmother, where Lynch would switch from live action to cut out animation, whenever he did a special effects scene unachievable at his budget.

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Re: Twin Peaks

#599 Post by tenia » Tue May 30, 2017 7:32 am

I understand your point, but their obvious digital photography took over for me.

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Re: Twin Peaks

#600 Post by Lost Highway » Tue May 30, 2017 12:37 pm

It also reminds me a little of the all too obvious backprojections and painted backdrops in Hitchcock's Marnie. In that case I don't even care if it was intention or sloppiness (or more likely baiting the "plausibles") but the far from seamless special effects in that film are exactly what gives it that surreal, dreamlike quality and what nudges it into poetry (Marnie is my second favourite Hitchcock)

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