Twin Peaks

Discuss TV shows old and new.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
carmilla mircalla
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:47 pm

Re: Twin Peaks

#801 Post by carmilla mircalla » Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:27 am

I can honestly say that tonight's ep was the very first this season that I did not feel the full momentum that the season has been building with each new episode. While I enjoyed each episode more than the last up until now something just felt kind of middling even though we got more interesting new scenes and another returning cast member we have not seen this season yet.

User avatar
All the Best People
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:08 pm
Contact:

Re: Twin Peaks

#802 Post by All the Best People » Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:33 am

I liked it all, but must say the Audrey intro was far weirder than anything in episode eight.

User avatar
mfunk9786
Under Chris' Protection
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: Twin Peaks

#803 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:08 am

The worst episode thusfar, regardless of its small joys (Sarah Palmer, the Ben Horne scene with Truman). It pains me to say so, but I think that Lynch may have miscalculated the level of humor in the FBI scenes when they head in that direction, as while I was certainly amused by the bizarre ladies man Gordon scene (and the excellently delivered turnip joke), I'm not sure it plays well when so much of the series has been clicking so compellingly to this point. There's a difference between something like that as a diversion from a churning plot, but this is the first episode that felt like it did not create any plot advancement whatsoever (despite the glimpses we got at future possibilities), and so throwing that into the center of it felt even more like a Lynch troll job. And I'm sure there are many red-lipsticked cosplayers out there who feel let down by whatever it is... that... Audrey... scene... was. Fenn seems to have fared worst of anyone with regard to acting ability (especially coming a week after such a great sequence with Amick and Ashbrook, and the aforementioned Richard Beymer scene), and I'm sure that an angry marriage to an egg-like grouch wasn't what viewers were hoping for. It seems as if Lynch didn't have a lot to work with for Audrey and this is the early stage of salvaging something compelling for her character... it just didn't really work.

User avatar
Roger Ryan
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:04 pm
Location: A Midland town spread and darkened into a city

Re: Twin Peaks

#804 Post by Roger Ryan » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:27 pm

The whole "Billy" subplot is the one that I just haven't been able to follow. The stolen truck was being investigated by Andy, right? And then there was the moment near the end of an early episode where a character was looking for Billy at the Double R Diner. The whole thing feels like a Shaggy Dog runaround.

Apart from this, I liked last night's episode quite a bit, especially the way the single scene/shot of Dougie "playing" catch with Sonny Jim relates to Ben Horne's lament that Richard Horne lacked a father and his own beautiful reverie about the childhood bicycle. And, for me, the comic bit in Cole's hotel room was just exquisitely-timed. Sure, we could be advancing the plot further, but I enjoyed the digressions.

User avatar
carmilla mircalla
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:47 pm

Re: Twin Peaks

#805 Post by carmilla mircalla » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:36 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:And I'm sure there are many red-lipsticked cosplayers out there who feel let down by whatever it is... that... Audrey... scene... was. Fenn seems to have fared worst of anyone with regard to acting ability (especially coming a week after such a great sequence with Amick and Ashbrook, and the aforementioned Richard Beymer scene), and I'm sure that an angry marriage to an egg-like grouch wasn't what viewers were hoping for. It seems as if Lynch didn't have a lot to work with for Audrey and this is the early stage of salvaging something compelling for her character... it just didn't really work.
My thoughts exactly. With the rest of the returning characters we're at least quickly informed or see what they are doing nowadays 25 years later and while Shelly still working at the diner could be something odd, the introduction of her daughter in the same scene and her interactions with Norma do show a progression of sorts to her character just not profession wise.

The Audrey scene was very off though because 1) we do not know really what she's up to now other than marrying some milquetoast and cheating on him with guy that has gone missing and 2) we're thrust into a scene that seems like we should have gotten it later in that sense especially with the reintro of Audrey. Not saying she needed a grand entrance because the other returning characters weren't treated in such a way (not even Coop) but we don't actually see any progression of her aside from getting older.

Also I was very prepared to see her appear even later in the show at this point and it seems like the collection of scenes that came before hers (which I am sure next to MacLachlan that she is the only returning character where her first scene plays out much longer than everyone else's I think that whole scene was near 10 minutes?) just didn't seem to flow smoothly to allow her to take up a big chunk of the end of the episode.

oh yeah
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:45 pm

Re: Twin Peaks

#806 Post by oh yeah » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:45 pm

I can appreciate the Audrey scene as a perverse attempt at expectation-scrambling, but past that it just isn't particularly interesting. Of course someone like her would/should be reintroduced in media res - she has a life of her own, and if we drop in 25 years later we're not going to get a totally comprehensible slice of it. But what Lynch and Frost gave us was just a challenge without any pleasure in it. I could hardly care less who Billy is or who Tina is... and similarly so for the random people in the Roadhouse. While I enjoy the off-the-cuff, slice of life way Lynch keeps dipping into these random patron's conversations, at least the one with the rash-girl was interesting, if morbid. This episode was simply a lot of dead air after the halfway mark. Truman and Ben was a wonderful scene, even if it could be accused of just providing more exposition. And of course Sarah Palmer... amazing. Very eager to see more of her, or anything in her house. Someone elsewhere speculated that the sound from the kitchen she so quickly dismissed to Hawk could actually be BOB/some Lodge entity - or a victim of such, i.e. if Sarah had somehow invited BOB or some evil like that into herself. It may sound a bit silly but you never know.

Overall I must admit I'm growing a little tired of the Cole/Albert/Diane plot, which is odd because it often produces some of my favorite moments. And hey, Lynch and Ferrer (and Dern) can be such comedy gold (and I really do love Bell in all her alien beauty/weirdness, too!) But, Part 11's momentous events aside, it feels like we've just been stuck along with them in that Buckhorn hotel for the last four weeks. It's time for some movement, something. Don't even get me started on Dougie - I don't wanna be one of those people, as I generally am okay with the Dougie plot, but if he's still limping around and mindlessly parroting others like Chauncey Gardner in the next episode, I'm going to be disappointed.

The end of Part 11 certainly signaled some sort of change for DougieCoop, but I fear that because of the very odd way in which these 18 hours were written, filmed, edited and arranged into parts, we often get strange episodes that feel imbalanced or lacking an element that the show had led us to expect would be touched on. For one thing, it was way back in Episode 9 that the Jackrabbit's Palace note was found, and 10/1 or 10/2 or whenever the day was when the gang would go there should, I believe, have already passed. IIRC, it was only about 2 days after the events of Part 9 - and I've read that, by many viewers' count, we've had more like 4 or 5 days pass since Part 9! Or at least 3, right? If the Jackrabbit's Palace stuff doesn't happen next week, I'll be truly puzzled. I'm really enjoying this season for the most part (especially Ep's 3, 4, 8, 9 and 11), but I can't help but think that the way it was constructed is creating some very unusual problems. There's nothing wrong with detours during a season of otherwise heavily serialized television - Episode 8 is pretty much the gold standard for that. But when Truman and Hawk talk portentously about all of the lore and symbols contained on that mysterious map, near the end of Part 11, with the implication that the JP visit is about to occur, it just feels "off" and frustrating when Part 12 sidesteps such issues more or less completely.

Definitely my least favorite Part thus far - I initially thought Part 10 was weak, but on a second viewing and with time it's gained value for me and it holds a power that this surprisingly lightweight hour lacked - sure, it's tonally "dark," but narratively we're in the valley when we need to be continuing our steady climb up that mountain. I almost wonder if some of these strands that pop up every episode or two and seem often so fragmented wouldn't be more satisfying if all viewed in isolation - e.g. Jerry tripping in the woods, Dr. Amp/Nadine watching (what was with the completely unnecessary, almost repeated scene of his this week, BTW?), Ben/Beverley, Dougie/Vegas, Gordon/Albert/Tammy/Diane, et al. There's just something so weirdly imbalanced and fragmented and loosely structured about this season so far, and I don't know if this impression will ever recede even if things come together beautifully in the final hour(s).

User avatar
All the Best People
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:08 pm
Contact:

Re: Twin Peaks

#807 Post by All the Best People » Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:56 am

More offputting, on a surface level, than the plot shenanigans of the Audrey info was her shrillness -- but, combined with Diane's, I wonder if the comportments of both of them aren't results of their encounters with Evil Cooper (who is clearly Richard's father).

User avatar
PfR73
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:07 pm

Re: Twin Peaks

#808 Post by PfR73 » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:21 pm

oh yeah wrote:Someone elsewhere speculated that the sound from the kitchen she so quickly dismissed to Hawk could actually be BOB/some Lodge entity - or a victim of such, i.e. if Sarah had somehow invited BOB or some evil like that into herself.
SpoilerShow
My first thought has been that it is the grocery boy who mentioned he could deliver her groceries; that he arrived at her house with them & in her unhinged state, she may have done something to him.

User avatar
mfunk9786
Under Chris' Protection
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: Twin Peaks

#809 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:29 pm

PfR73 wrote:
oh yeah wrote:Someone elsewhere speculated that the sound from the kitchen she so quickly dismissed to Hawk could actually be BOB/some Lodge entity - or a victim of such, i.e. if Sarah had somehow invited BOB or some evil like that into herself.
SpoilerShow
My first thought has been that it is the grocery boy who mentioned he could deliver her groceries; that he arrived at her house with them & in her unhinged state, she may have done something to him.
Oh... God. I didn't think of that, and the sound was so otherworldly, but that is certainly some theory and I would not be entirely surprised.

User avatar
dadaistnun
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:31 am

Re: Twin Peaks

#810 Post by dadaistnun » Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:43 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:
PfR73 wrote:
oh yeah wrote:Someone elsewhere speculated that the sound from the kitchen she so quickly dismissed to Hawk could actually be BOB/some Lodge entity - or a victim of such, i.e. if Sarah had somehow invited BOB or some evil like that into herself.
SpoilerShow
My first thought has been that it is the grocery boy who mentioned he could deliver her groceries; that he arrived at her house with them & in her unhinged state, she may have done something to him.
Oh... God. I didn't think of that, and the sound was so otherworldly, but that is certainly some theory and I would not be entirely surprised.
My guess is that the sound was
SpoilerShow
Laura. I've sort of been expecting her return ever since she was pulled, screaming, out of the red room/Black Lodge back in part two, and I've been terrified at the thought of her confronting Sarah.

On the Diane front, until this last part, my theory was that she had been assaulted by the bad Cooper, was not believed by the Bureau (thus her constant "Fuck you"s to everyone she used to work with)and has been trying to find him herself for retribution/resolution.
That said, I learned within the first few hours of The Return that trying to predict where the plot is going is both a fool's errand and largely beside the point.

I get where people are coming from wrt disappointment in part 12, but I really liked it for the most part. The Sarah material was amongst the best of the whole series so far, and I loved Ben's reverie about the bicycle. I found the Audrey scene at once hilarious and disturbing in a Beckettesque way.

User avatar
carmilla mircalla
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:47 pm

Re: Twin Peaks

#811 Post by carmilla mircalla » Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:00 pm

dadaistnun wrote:That said, I learned within the first few hours of The Return that trying to predict where the plot is going is both a fool's errand and largely beside the point.
Perfect thinking but good lord stay off the TP subred. That place is filled with insane people with incredibly stupid theories.

oh yeah
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:45 pm

Twin Peaks

#812 Post by oh yeah » Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:14 pm

Diane's character arc has been strange to say the least. I also was certain after Part 7 that what happened "that night" was rape, and I still think it just explains so much of Diane's personality perfectly, from her alcoholism (and need to guzzle vodka right after seeing DoppelCoop), to her antagonism towards Cole and Albert - it'd make sense for them not to believe that the man they thought was Good Coop could do something so heinous.

Hell, just the way Diane replies to DoppelCoop coldly saying how he'll always remember "that night" felt incredibly powerful and just truthful. Dern was fantastic in this scene and this moment - as Diane spits back, with words revealing a trembling sadness and rage only very thinly veiled by her usual protective layer of sarcasm: "Same for me, I'll never forget it." I found that moment very moving and find it hard to believe it was anything but the wounded, angry words of a woman shoving her pain in her rapist's face - as if saying, "Yeah, fuckhead, you ruined my fucking life and defiled my body and soul. I hope YOU never forget THAT!"

As in FWWM, Lynch's acutely compassionate sensitivity to, and understanding of, the plight of sexual abuse victims remains commendable - and very rare, in a filmmaking world where such matters are too often either plagued by denial and distancing, tastelessly exploited for shock value's sake, or viewed solely from the skewed perspective of the perpetrator.

So I do have to admit that I've found Diane's switch from a tough/stubborn woman scarred by the trauma inflicted by DoppelCoop, to a more one-dimensional femme fatale-like figure, a treacherous baddie evidently working with the main villain, to be a bit disappointing, at least on the surface level. Yet the question of Diane's intentions and whether they're good or evil isn't as clear as it may seem. Basically, I don't think that the turn in her character precludes the foregoing analysis of what he did to her. For one thing, it's totally possible for Diane to be working with him in some way despite what he did to her -- my take is that the first text he sent her, on the plane in Ep 9, somehow triggered her into being his minion - that he has some kind of mind control-like sway over her that the cryptic "dinner table" text somehow set into motion.

But either way, I just can't believe that Diane's highly charged confrontation with DoppelCoop in Ep 7 was some sort of act put on (as we know Gordon was listening in) to hide the fact that they're in cahoots. It was such a real and raw scene and Diane really acted chillingly, sadly like a rape survivor confronting their abuser. And so if that was all a charade it would just feel like a gimmick almost.

Another possibility is that Diane is in contact with DoppelCoop but feeding him wrong information, or feeding him right info/coordinates as part of some plan to exact revenge on him when they inevitably cross paths.

BTW, I love how much Lynch lingers on Diane's smokes of choice (Yellow American Spirits); he almost always makes sure the pack is quite visible in the frame. Not bad product placement, hah. Those are actually my smokes of choice as well so I just find it amusing. Lynch himself, though, seems to be a Light Blue Spirits man, as seen in The Art Life and elsewhere. The guy loves his cigarettes... I swear I remember reading that he said he'd quit smoking from about 1980 to 2001, but I've seen a ton of pictures or video of Lynch during that time smoking like a chimney. Let's just hope it doesn't end up cutting his remaining time on Earth too much shorter...

User avatar
All the Best People
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:08 pm
Contact:

Re: Twin Peaks

#813 Post by All the Best People » Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:19 pm

I too would find it disappointing if Diane's horror at meeting Evil Cooper was an act in any way. I really don't think Lynch would do that to either the character or Laura Dern, honestly. I hope that's not wishcasting on my part

cdobbs
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:45 am

Re: Twin Peaks

#814 Post by cdobbs » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:45 am

I would bet that Diane is texting with Phillip Jeffries, or whoever/whatever Jeffries has become at this point, possibly as an act of revenge on Cooper. The change of letter case in the "Around the dinner table..." text Evil Cooper sends vs. the one Diane receives is no mistake.

User avatar
Roger Ryan
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:04 pm
Location: A Midland town spread and darkened into a city

Re: Twin Peaks

#815 Post by Roger Ryan » Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:12 pm

oh yeah wrote:...I swear I remember reading that he said he'd quit smoking from about 1980 to 2001, but I've seen a ton of pictures or video of Lynch during that time smoking like a chimney. Let's just hope it doesn't end up cutting his remaining time on Earth too much shorter...
No way Lynch quit smoking for 22 years. I believe his cessation lasted a few months (at most) somewhere around 2009 - 2010. He's probably betting on surviving as long as Harry Dean Stanton has on nicotine and coffee!

oh yeah
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:45 pm

Re: Twin Peaks

#816 Post by oh yeah » Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:17 pm

Roger Ryan wrote:
oh yeah wrote:...I swear I remember reading that he said he'd quit smoking from about 1980 to 2001, but I've seen a ton of pictures or video of Lynch during that time smoking like a chimney. Let's just hope it doesn't end up cutting his remaining time on Earth too much shorter...
No way Lynch quit smoking for 22 years. I believe his cessation lasted a few months (at most) somewhere around 2009 - 2010. He's probably betting on surviving as long as Harry Dean Stanton has on nicotine and coffee!
It just made me think of Lynch himself when Stanton first appeared on The Return back in Part 6 and proudly declared (paraphrasing): "I'm 90 years old. I been smoking every day for 75 years!"

User avatar
carmilla mircalla
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:47 pm

Re: Twin Peaks

#817 Post by carmilla mircalla » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:21 pm

No spoilers about tonight's ep but the season is obviously progressing like how it should have been obvious: the second half is featuring more and more returning characters in Twin Peaks but in all honesty is anyone else finding the new characters and their storylines much more intersting? Because I am in that boat.

flyonthewall2983
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Indiana
Contact:

Re: Twin Peaks

#818 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:59 am

Real showcase for Tom Sizemore tonight. Seeing him play such a desperate, pathetic character is quite a shift from my previous perception of his talent.

User avatar
carmilla mircalla
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:47 pm

Re: Twin Peaks

#819 Post by carmilla mircalla » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:34 am

Also apparently some on demand streaming service in the EU aired episode 14 mislabeled as e13 tonight... someone help me out here

User avatar
Cold Bishop
Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 9:45 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Twin Peaks

#820 Post by Cold Bishop » Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:32 am

All I know is that it sounds like next week episode is supposed to be another "Holy Shit!" episode, so I'm hoping to avoid spoilers until next week.

User avatar
carmilla mircalla
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:47 pm

Re: Twin Peaks

#821 Post by carmilla mircalla » Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:40 am

I accidentally stumbled upon a couple spoilers, one of them did seem pretty big so yeah, it sounds like it's gonna make up for the lackluster of tonight's and last weekend's episode

BigMack3000
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:27 pm

Re: Twin Peaks

#822 Post by BigMack3000 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:54 am

In last night's episode Bobby said
SpoilerShow
He found something at his father's house today.
I wonder how much of the show Lynch is choosing to reveal out of order.

User avatar
swo17
Bloodthirsty Butcher
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT

Re: Twin Peaks

#823 Post by swo17 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:06 pm

Not to mention
SpoilerShow
the scene of Dougie playing catch with his son last week makes no sense if he is only now returning from his adventure with the Mitchum brothers.

User avatar
mfunk9786
Under Chris' Protection
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: Twin Peaks

#824 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:57 pm

Looking forward to someone editing this season The Godfather Saga style.

User avatar
Forrest Taft
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:34 pm
Location: Stavanger, Norway

Re: Twin Peaks

#825 Post by Forrest Taft » Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:03 pm

According to the end credits,
SpoilerShow
Sheryl Lee was in this episode...How did I miss that?

Post Reply