Twin Peaks
- carmilla mircalla
- Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:47 pm
Re: Twin Peaks
I can honestly say that tonight's ep was the very first this season that I did not feel the full momentum that the season has been building with each new episode. While I enjoyed each episode more than the last up until now something just felt kind of middling even though we got more interesting new scenes and another returning cast member we have not seen this season yet.
- All the Best People
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Re: Twin Peaks
I liked it all, but must say the Audrey intro was far weirder than anything in episode eight.
- mfunk9786
- Under Chris' Protection
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Re: Twin Peaks
The worst episode thusfar, regardless of its small joys (Sarah Palmer, the Ben Horne scene with Truman). It pains me to say so, but I think that Lynch may have miscalculated the level of humor in the FBI scenes when they head in that direction, as while I was certainly amused by the bizarre ladies man Gordon scene (and the excellently delivered turnip joke), I'm not sure it plays well when so much of the series has been clicking so compellingly to this point. There's a difference between something like that as a diversion from a churning plot, but this is the first episode that felt like it did not create any plot advancement whatsoever (despite the glimpses we got at future possibilities), and so throwing that into the center of it felt even more like a Lynch troll job. And I'm sure there are many red-lipsticked cosplayers out there who feel let down by whatever it is... that... Audrey... scene... was. Fenn seems to have fared worst of anyone with regard to acting ability (especially coming a week after such a great sequence with Amick and Ashbrook, and the aforementioned Richard Beymer scene), and I'm sure that an angry marriage to an egg-like grouch wasn't what viewers were hoping for. It seems as if Lynch didn't have a lot to work with for Audrey and this is the early stage of salvaging something compelling for her character... it just didn't really work.
- Roger Ryan
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Re: Twin Peaks
The whole "Billy" subplot is the one that I just haven't been able to follow. The stolen truck was being investigated by Andy, right? And then there was the moment near the end of an early episode where a character was looking for Billy at the Double R Diner. The whole thing feels like a Shaggy Dog runaround.
Apart from this, I liked last night's episode quite a bit, especially the way the single scene/shot of Dougie "playing" catch with Sonny Jim relates to Ben Horne's lament that Richard Horne lacked a father and his own beautiful reverie about the childhood bicycle. And, for me, the comic bit in Cole's hotel room was just exquisitely-timed. Sure, we could be advancing the plot further, but I enjoyed the digressions.
Apart from this, I liked last night's episode quite a bit, especially the way the single scene/shot of Dougie "playing" catch with Sonny Jim relates to Ben Horne's lament that Richard Horne lacked a father and his own beautiful reverie about the childhood bicycle. And, for me, the comic bit in Cole's hotel room was just exquisitely-timed. Sure, we could be advancing the plot further, but I enjoyed the digressions.
- carmilla mircalla
- Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:47 pm
Re: Twin Peaks
My thoughts exactly. With the rest of the returning characters we're at least quickly informed or see what they are doing nowadays 25 years later and while Shelly still working at the diner could be something odd, the introduction of her daughter in the same scene and her interactions with Norma do show a progression of sorts to her character just not profession wise.mfunk9786 wrote:And I'm sure there are many red-lipsticked cosplayers out there who feel let down by whatever it is... that... Audrey... scene... was. Fenn seems to have fared worst of anyone with regard to acting ability (especially coming a week after such a great sequence with Amick and Ashbrook, and the aforementioned Richard Beymer scene), and I'm sure that an angry marriage to an egg-like grouch wasn't what viewers were hoping for. It seems as if Lynch didn't have a lot to work with for Audrey and this is the early stage of salvaging something compelling for her character... it just didn't really work.
The Audrey scene was very off though because 1) we do not know really what she's up to now other than marrying some milquetoast and cheating on him with guy that has gone missing and 2) we're thrust into a scene that seems like we should have gotten it later in that sense especially with the reintro of Audrey. Not saying she needed a grand entrance because the other returning characters weren't treated in such a way (not even Coop) but we don't actually see any progression of her aside from getting older.
Also I was very prepared to see her appear even later in the show at this point and it seems like the collection of scenes that came before hers (which I am sure next to MacLachlan that she is the only returning character where her first scene plays out much longer than everyone else's I think that whole scene was near 10 minutes?) just didn't seem to flow smoothly to allow her to take up a big chunk of the end of the episode.
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- Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:45 pm
Re: Twin Peaks
I can appreciate the Audrey scene as a perverse attempt at expectation-scrambling, but past that it just isn't particularly interesting. Of course someone like her would/should be reintroduced in media res - she has a life of her own, and if we drop in 25 years later we're not going to get a totally comprehensible slice of it. But what Lynch and Frost gave us was just a challenge without any pleasure in it. I could hardly care less who Billy is or who Tina is... and similarly so for the random people in the Roadhouse. While I enjoy the off-the-cuff, slice of life way Lynch keeps dipping into these random patron's conversations, at least the one with the rash-girl was interesting, if morbid. This episode was simply a lot of dead air after the halfway mark. Truman and Ben was a wonderful scene, even if it could be accused of just providing more exposition. And of course Sarah Palmer... amazing. Very eager to see more of her, or anything in her house. Someone elsewhere speculated that the sound from the kitchen she so quickly dismissed to Hawk could actually be BOB/some Lodge entity - or a victim of such, i.e. if Sarah had somehow invited BOB or some evil like that into herself. It may sound a bit silly but you never know.
Overall I must admit I'm growing a little tired of the Cole/Albert/Diane plot, which is odd because it often produces some of my favorite moments. And hey, Lynch and Ferrer (and Dern) can be such comedy gold (and I really do love Bell in all her alien beauty/weirdness, too!) But, Part 11's momentous events aside, it feels like we've just been stuck along with them in that Buckhorn hotel for the last four weeks. It's time for some movement, something. Don't even get me started on Dougie - I don't wanna be one of those people, as I generally am okay with the Dougie plot, but if he's still limping around and mindlessly parroting others like Chauncey Gardner in the next episode, I'm going to be disappointed.
The end of Part 11 certainly signaled some sort of change for DougieCoop, but I fear that because of the very odd way in which these 18 hours were written, filmed, edited and arranged into parts, we often get strange episodes that feel imbalanced or lacking an element that the show had led us to expect would be touched on. For one thing, it was way back in Episode 9 that the Jackrabbit's Palace note was found, and 10/1 or 10/2 or whenever the day was when the gang would go there should, I believe, have already passed. IIRC, it was only about 2 days after the events of Part 9 - and I've read that, by many viewers' count, we've had more like 4 or 5 days pass since Part 9! Or at least 3, right? If the Jackrabbit's Palace stuff doesn't happen next week, I'll be truly puzzled. I'm really enjoying this season for the most part (especially Ep's 3, 4, 8, 9 and 11), but I can't help but think that the way it was constructed is creating some very unusual problems. There's nothing wrong with detours during a season of otherwise heavily serialized television - Episode 8 is pretty much the gold standard for that. But when Truman and Hawk talk portentously about all of the lore and symbols contained on that mysterious map, near the end of Part 11, with the implication that the JP visit is about to occur, it just feels "off" and frustrating when Part 12 sidesteps such issues more or less completely.
Definitely my least favorite Part thus far - I initially thought Part 10 was weak, but on a second viewing and with time it's gained value for me and it holds a power that this surprisingly lightweight hour lacked - sure, it's tonally "dark," but narratively we're in the valley when we need to be continuing our steady climb up that mountain. I almost wonder if some of these strands that pop up every episode or two and seem often so fragmented wouldn't be more satisfying if all viewed in isolation - e.g. Jerry tripping in the woods, Dr. Amp/Nadine watching (what was with the completely unnecessary, almost repeated scene of his this week, BTW?), Ben/Beverley, Dougie/Vegas, Gordon/Albert/Tammy/Diane, et al. There's just something so weirdly imbalanced and fragmented and loosely structured about this season so far, and I don't know if this impression will ever recede even if things come together beautifully in the final hour(s).
Overall I must admit I'm growing a little tired of the Cole/Albert/Diane plot, which is odd because it often produces some of my favorite moments. And hey, Lynch and Ferrer (and Dern) can be such comedy gold (and I really do love Bell in all her alien beauty/weirdness, too!) But, Part 11's momentous events aside, it feels like we've just been stuck along with them in that Buckhorn hotel for the last four weeks. It's time for some movement, something. Don't even get me started on Dougie - I don't wanna be one of those people, as I generally am okay with the Dougie plot, but if he's still limping around and mindlessly parroting others like Chauncey Gardner in the next episode, I'm going to be disappointed.
The end of Part 11 certainly signaled some sort of change for DougieCoop, but I fear that because of the very odd way in which these 18 hours were written, filmed, edited and arranged into parts, we often get strange episodes that feel imbalanced or lacking an element that the show had led us to expect would be touched on. For one thing, it was way back in Episode 9 that the Jackrabbit's Palace note was found, and 10/1 or 10/2 or whenever the day was when the gang would go there should, I believe, have already passed. IIRC, it was only about 2 days after the events of Part 9 - and I've read that, by many viewers' count, we've had more like 4 or 5 days pass since Part 9! Or at least 3, right? If the Jackrabbit's Palace stuff doesn't happen next week, I'll be truly puzzled. I'm really enjoying this season for the most part (especially Ep's 3, 4, 8, 9 and 11), but I can't help but think that the way it was constructed is creating some very unusual problems. There's nothing wrong with detours during a season of otherwise heavily serialized television - Episode 8 is pretty much the gold standard for that. But when Truman and Hawk talk portentously about all of the lore and symbols contained on that mysterious map, near the end of Part 11, with the implication that the JP visit is about to occur, it just feels "off" and frustrating when Part 12 sidesteps such issues more or less completely.
Definitely my least favorite Part thus far - I initially thought Part 10 was weak, but on a second viewing and with time it's gained value for me and it holds a power that this surprisingly lightweight hour lacked - sure, it's tonally "dark," but narratively we're in the valley when we need to be continuing our steady climb up that mountain. I almost wonder if some of these strands that pop up every episode or two and seem often so fragmented wouldn't be more satisfying if all viewed in isolation - e.g. Jerry tripping in the woods, Dr. Amp/Nadine watching (what was with the completely unnecessary, almost repeated scene of his this week, BTW?), Ben/Beverley, Dougie/Vegas, Gordon/Albert/Tammy/Diane, et al. There's just something so weirdly imbalanced and fragmented and loosely structured about this season so far, and I don't know if this impression will ever recede even if things come together beautifully in the final hour(s).
- All the Best People
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Re: Twin Peaks
More offputting, on a surface level, than the plot shenanigans of the Audrey info was her shrillness -- but, combined with Diane's, I wonder if the comportments of both of them aren't results of their encounters with Evil Cooper (who is clearly Richard's father).
- PfR73
- Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:07 pm
Re: Twin Peaks
oh yeah wrote:Someone elsewhere speculated that the sound from the kitchen she so quickly dismissed to Hawk could actually be BOB/some Lodge entity - or a victim of such, i.e. if Sarah had somehow invited BOB or some evil like that into herself.
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My first thought has been that it is the grocery boy who mentioned he could deliver her groceries; that he arrived at her house with them & in her unhinged state, she may have done something to him.
- mfunk9786
- Under Chris' Protection
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Re: Twin Peaks
Oh... God. I didn't think of that, and the sound was so otherworldly, but that is certainly some theory and I would not be entirely surprised.PfR73 wrote:oh yeah wrote:Someone elsewhere speculated that the sound from the kitchen she so quickly dismissed to Hawk could actually be BOB/some Lodge entity - or a victim of such, i.e. if Sarah had somehow invited BOB or some evil like that into herself.SpoilerShowMy first thought has been that it is the grocery boy who mentioned he could deliver her groceries; that he arrived at her house with them & in her unhinged state, she may have done something to him.
- dadaistnun
- Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:31 am
Re: Twin Peaks
My guess is that the sound wasmfunk9786 wrote:Oh... God. I didn't think of that, and the sound was so otherworldly, but that is certainly some theory and I would not be entirely surprised.PfR73 wrote:oh yeah wrote:Someone elsewhere speculated that the sound from the kitchen she so quickly dismissed to Hawk could actually be BOB/some Lodge entity - or a victim of such, i.e. if Sarah had somehow invited BOB or some evil like that into herself.SpoilerShowMy first thought has been that it is the grocery boy who mentioned he could deliver her groceries; that he arrived at her house with them & in her unhinged state, she may have done something to him.
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Laura. I've sort of been expecting her return ever since she was pulled, screaming, out of the red room/Black Lodge back in part two, and I've been terrified at the thought of her confronting Sarah.
On the Diane front, until this last part, my theory was that she had been assaulted by the bad Cooper, was not believed by the Bureau (thus her constant "Fuck you"s to everyone she used to work with)and has been trying to find him herself for retribution/resolution.
On the Diane front, until this last part, my theory was that she had been assaulted by the bad Cooper, was not believed by the Bureau (thus her constant "Fuck you"s to everyone she used to work with)and has been trying to find him herself for retribution/resolution.
I get where people are coming from wrt disappointment in part 12, but I really liked it for the most part. The Sarah material was amongst the best of the whole series so far, and I loved Ben's reverie about the bicycle. I found the Audrey scene at once hilarious and disturbing in a Beckettesque way.
- carmilla mircalla
- Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:47 pm
Re: Twin Peaks
Perfect thinking but good lord stay off the TP subred. That place is filled with insane people with incredibly stupid theories.dadaistnun wrote:That said, I learned within the first few hours of The Return that trying to predict where the plot is going is both a fool's errand and largely beside the point.
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- Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:45 pm
Twin Peaks
Diane's character arc has been strange to say the least. I also was certain after Part 7 that what happened "that night" was rape, and I still think it just explains so much of Diane's personality perfectly, from her alcoholism (and need to guzzle vodka right after seeing DoppelCoop), to her antagonism towards Cole and Albert - it'd make sense for them not to believe that the man they thought was Good Coop could do something so heinous.
Hell, just the way Diane replies to DoppelCoop coldly saying how he'll always remember "that night" felt incredibly powerful and just truthful. Dern was fantastic in this scene and this moment - as Diane spits back, with words revealing a trembling sadness and rage only very thinly veiled by her usual protective layer of sarcasm: "Same for me, I'll never forget it." I found that moment very moving and find it hard to believe it was anything but the wounded, angry words of a woman shoving her pain in her rapist's face - as if saying, "Yeah, fuckhead, you ruined my fucking life and defiled my body and soul. I hope YOU never forget THAT!"
As in FWWM, Lynch's acutely compassionate sensitivity to, and understanding of, the plight of sexual abuse victims remains commendable - and very rare, in a filmmaking world where such matters are too often either plagued by denial and distancing, tastelessly exploited for shock value's sake, or viewed solely from the skewed perspective of the perpetrator.
So I do have to admit that I've found Diane's switch from a tough/stubborn woman scarred by the trauma inflicted by DoppelCoop, to a more one-dimensional femme fatale-like figure, a treacherous baddie evidently working with the main villain, to be a bit disappointing, at least on the surface level. Yet the question of Diane's intentions and whether they're good or evil isn't as clear as it may seem. Basically, I don't think that the turn in her character precludes the foregoing analysis of what he did to her. For one thing, it's totally possible for Diane to be working with him in some way despite what he did to her -- my take is that the first text he sent her, on the plane in Ep 9, somehow triggered her into being his minion - that he has some kind of mind control-like sway over her that the cryptic "dinner table" text somehow set into motion.
But either way, I just can't believe that Diane's highly charged confrontation with DoppelCoop in Ep 7 was some sort of act put on (as we know Gordon was listening in) to hide the fact that they're in cahoots. It was such a real and raw scene and Diane really acted chillingly, sadly like a rape survivor confronting their abuser. And so if that was all a charade it would just feel like a gimmick almost.
Another possibility is that Diane is in contact with DoppelCoop but feeding him wrong information, or feeding him right info/coordinates as part of some plan to exact revenge on him when they inevitably cross paths.
BTW, I love how much Lynch lingers on Diane's smokes of choice (Yellow American Spirits); he almost always makes sure the pack is quite visible in the frame. Not bad product placement, hah. Those are actually my smokes of choice as well so I just find it amusing. Lynch himself, though, seems to be a Light Blue Spirits man, as seen in The Art Life and elsewhere. The guy loves his cigarettes... I swear I remember reading that he said he'd quit smoking from about 1980 to 2001, but I've seen a ton of pictures or video of Lynch during that time smoking like a chimney. Let's just hope it doesn't end up cutting his remaining time on Earth too much shorter...
Hell, just the way Diane replies to DoppelCoop coldly saying how he'll always remember "that night" felt incredibly powerful and just truthful. Dern was fantastic in this scene and this moment - as Diane spits back, with words revealing a trembling sadness and rage only very thinly veiled by her usual protective layer of sarcasm: "Same for me, I'll never forget it." I found that moment very moving and find it hard to believe it was anything but the wounded, angry words of a woman shoving her pain in her rapist's face - as if saying, "Yeah, fuckhead, you ruined my fucking life and defiled my body and soul. I hope YOU never forget THAT!"
As in FWWM, Lynch's acutely compassionate sensitivity to, and understanding of, the plight of sexual abuse victims remains commendable - and very rare, in a filmmaking world where such matters are too often either plagued by denial and distancing, tastelessly exploited for shock value's sake, or viewed solely from the skewed perspective of the perpetrator.
So I do have to admit that I've found Diane's switch from a tough/stubborn woman scarred by the trauma inflicted by DoppelCoop, to a more one-dimensional femme fatale-like figure, a treacherous baddie evidently working with the main villain, to be a bit disappointing, at least on the surface level. Yet the question of Diane's intentions and whether they're good or evil isn't as clear as it may seem. Basically, I don't think that the turn in her character precludes the foregoing analysis of what he did to her. For one thing, it's totally possible for Diane to be working with him in some way despite what he did to her -- my take is that the first text he sent her, on the plane in Ep 9, somehow triggered her into being his minion - that he has some kind of mind control-like sway over her that the cryptic "dinner table" text somehow set into motion.
But either way, I just can't believe that Diane's highly charged confrontation with DoppelCoop in Ep 7 was some sort of act put on (as we know Gordon was listening in) to hide the fact that they're in cahoots. It was such a real and raw scene and Diane really acted chillingly, sadly like a rape survivor confronting their abuser. And so if that was all a charade it would just feel like a gimmick almost.
Another possibility is that Diane is in contact with DoppelCoop but feeding him wrong information, or feeding him right info/coordinates as part of some plan to exact revenge on him when they inevitably cross paths.
BTW, I love how much Lynch lingers on Diane's smokes of choice (Yellow American Spirits); he almost always makes sure the pack is quite visible in the frame. Not bad product placement, hah. Those are actually my smokes of choice as well so I just find it amusing. Lynch himself, though, seems to be a Light Blue Spirits man, as seen in The Art Life and elsewhere. The guy loves his cigarettes... I swear I remember reading that he said he'd quit smoking from about 1980 to 2001, but I've seen a ton of pictures or video of Lynch during that time smoking like a chimney. Let's just hope it doesn't end up cutting his remaining time on Earth too much shorter...
- All the Best People
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Re: Twin Peaks
I too would find it disappointing if Diane's horror at meeting Evil Cooper was an act in any way. I really don't think Lynch would do that to either the character or Laura Dern, honestly. I hope that's not wishcasting on my part
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- Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:45 am
Re: Twin Peaks
I would bet that Diane is texting with Phillip Jeffries, or whoever/whatever Jeffries has become at this point, possibly as an act of revenge on Cooper. The change of letter case in the "Around the dinner table..." text Evil Cooper sends vs. the one Diane receives is no mistake.
- Roger Ryan
- Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:04 pm
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Re: Twin Peaks
No way Lynch quit smoking for 22 years. I believe his cessation lasted a few months (at most) somewhere around 2009 - 2010. He's probably betting on surviving as long as Harry Dean Stanton has on nicotine and coffee!oh yeah wrote:...I swear I remember reading that he said he'd quit smoking from about 1980 to 2001, but I've seen a ton of pictures or video of Lynch during that time smoking like a chimney. Let's just hope it doesn't end up cutting his remaining time on Earth too much shorter...
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- Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:45 pm
Re: Twin Peaks
It just made me think of Lynch himself when Stanton first appeared on The Return back in Part 6 and proudly declared (paraphrasing): "I'm 90 years old. I been smoking every day for 75 years!"Roger Ryan wrote:No way Lynch quit smoking for 22 years. I believe his cessation lasted a few months (at most) somewhere around 2009 - 2010. He's probably betting on surviving as long as Harry Dean Stanton has on nicotine and coffee!oh yeah wrote:...I swear I remember reading that he said he'd quit smoking from about 1980 to 2001, but I've seen a ton of pictures or video of Lynch during that time smoking like a chimney. Let's just hope it doesn't end up cutting his remaining time on Earth too much shorter...
- carmilla mircalla
- Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:47 pm
Re: Twin Peaks
No spoilers about tonight's ep but the season is obviously progressing like how it should have been obvious: the second half is featuring more and more returning characters in Twin Peaks but in all honesty is anyone else finding the new characters and their storylines much more intersting? Because I am in that boat.
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Re: Twin Peaks
Real showcase for Tom Sizemore tonight. Seeing him play such a desperate, pathetic character is quite a shift from my previous perception of his talent.
- carmilla mircalla
- Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:47 pm
Re: Twin Peaks
Also apparently some on demand streaming service in the EU aired episode 14 mislabeled as e13 tonight... someone help me out here
- Cold Bishop
- Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 9:45 pm
- Location: Portland, OR
Re: Twin Peaks
All I know is that it sounds like next week episode is supposed to be another "Holy Shit!" episode, so I'm hoping to avoid spoilers until next week.
- carmilla mircalla
- Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:47 pm
Re: Twin Peaks
I accidentally stumbled upon a couple spoilers, one of them did seem pretty big so yeah, it sounds like it's gonna make up for the lackluster of tonight's and last weekend's episode
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- Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:27 pm
Re: Twin Peaks
In last night's episode Bobby said
I wonder how much of the show Lynch is choosing to reveal out of order.
SpoilerShow
He found something at his father's house today.
- swo17
- Bloodthirsty Butcher
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Re: Twin Peaks
Not to mention
SpoilerShow
the scene of Dougie playing catch with his son last week makes no sense if he is only now returning from his adventure with the Mitchum brothers.
- mfunk9786
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Re: Twin Peaks
Looking forward to someone editing this season The Godfather Saga style.
- Forrest Taft
- Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:34 pm
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Re: Twin Peaks
According to the end credits,
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Sheryl Lee was in this episode...How did I miss that?