Twin Peaks

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Roger Ryan
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Re: Twin Peaks

#1176 Post by Roger Ryan » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:53 pm

Well, for me, I find the ending to the European version of the pilot to be a rush job which does no favors to where the story/series goes from there.
mfunk9786 wrote:
tenia wrote:And then read The Final Dossier, I guess (though I dont know if it's any good).
I asked the biggest Twin Peaks fanatic I know how this was, and he replied with a pretty thudding "eh." Was glad that Lynch throws Frost the bone of getting to do these books as what is likely a concession for the sake of their collaboration but feels they're pretty poor.
As I mentioned a couple of pages back, Frost's book is a quick, fun read; not great, but a welcomed perspective (2016's "The Secret History of Twin Peaks" was considerably stronger). I think the book is worthwhile just for providing...
SpoilerShow
...confirmation of Sarah Palmer as the host for "Judy" and for the implication that a number of the events seen in Season 3 are the result of Agent Cooper altering the timeline in his attempt to spare Laura Palmer's life.

nowhereisaplace
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Re: Twin Peaks

#1177 Post by nowhereisaplace » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:27 pm

Roger Ryan wrote:Well, for me, I find the ending to the European version of the pilot to be a rush job which does no favors to where the story/series goes from there.
I agree with you that it was a rush job - that's clear from the fact that Lynch reportedly skimmed the fine print of his contract and wasn't even aware he had to deliver a European theatrical version until he was on set. But I think it's unfair to say it does the story no favors because all of that was basically made up on the spot and then they story was carefully worked out based on the fact that this throwaway stuff that Lynch came up with was just too interesting to throw away on an alternate version. So I would say this little rush job did the world of Twin Peaks an incredible amount of favors in the grand scheme of things!

As for the Final Dossier, my own 2 cents is that it is the weakest spinoff book (my favorite being the Access Guide, followed by Cooper's Tapes). It has a couple of interesting sections but much of it feels gratuitous and a little sloppy - however, be warned on all of these books; for such an enormous artistic achievement the series and films are, there isn't one of the books that could even approach anything resembling superior literature - at least in my opinion.

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AlexHansen
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Re: Twin Peaks

#1178 Post by AlexHansen » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:51 pm

Roger Ryan wrote:Well, for me, I find the ending to the European version of the pilot to be a rush job which does no favors to where the story/series goes from there.
mfunk9786 wrote:
tenia wrote:And then read The Final Dossier, I guess (though I dont know if it's any good).
I asked the biggest Twin Peaks fanatic I know how this was, and he replied with a pretty thudding "eh." Was glad that Lynch throws Frost the bone of getting to do these books as what is likely a concession for the sake of their collaboration but feels they're pretty poor.
As I mentioned a couple of pages back, Frost's book is a quick, fun read; not great, but a welcomed perspective (2016's "The Secret History of Twin Peaks" was considerably stronger). I think the book is worthwhile just for providing...
SpoilerShow
...confirmation of Sarah Palmer as the host for "Judy" and for the implication that a number of the events seen in Season 3 are the result of Agent Cooper altering the timeline in his attempt to spare Laura Palmer's life.
Also Annie’s fate.

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All the Best People
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Re: Twin Peaks

#1179 Post by All the Best People » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:51 am

Everything I've read about the books is that they serve as curiosities and are essentially fan fiction. A friend has them and I've flipped through them, but don't see how they could add value to the show itself -- the show is not improved by explanation. The books may be diverting enough on their own, of course, I can't judge without having read them myself.

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AlexHansen
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Re: Twin Peaks

#1180 Post by AlexHansen » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:59 am

For me the two books are of value because they shift things from "the world of Twin Peaks" to "the world Twin Peaks is part of", which the new run also does. I also felt they did a good job clarifying some things while never fully explaining them, adding new wrinkles and lines of thought.

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jindianajonz
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Re: Twin Peaks

#1181 Post by jindianajonz » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:07 am

I read the final dossier on a flight the other day, and it took about 3 hours. While some of the parts mentioned here were interesting, and it stayed more focused than Secret History, there was still a lot of padding and filler. About a quarter of the book simply recounts what happened on screen in season 3, and the new developments aren't nearly enough to justify the price.

Robin Davies
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Re: Twin Peaks

#1182 Post by Robin Davies » Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:14 pm

AlexHansen wrote:I also felt they did a good job clarifying some things while never fully explaining them, adding new wrinkles and lines of thought.
I agree. I think it was helpful to have just a few things nailed down a bit more firmly, considering how outrageously complex and baffling the series was. Much as I love it, Twin Peaks 3 makes Inland Empire look simple!

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zedz
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Re: Twin Peaks

#1183 Post by zedz » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:45 pm

Robin Davies wrote:
R0lf wrote:Or if you use phonetics Judy is is just Dougie backwards.
I don't understand this!
That's because it's nonsense! "Judy" and "Dougie" only have two phonemes in common out of four (/d/ and /i/), and they're next to each other in "Judy" and at opposite ends of "Dougie"! The other vowels are completely different and the /dʒ/ in "Judy" and the /g/ in "Dougie" are completely unrelated: they're formed in different parts of the mouth (palato-alveolar vs. velar) in different ways (affricate vs. stop). This is just a case of inventing 'evidence' to prop up a sagging theory.

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Werewolf by Night
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Re: Twin Peaks

#1184 Post by Werewolf by Night » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:49 pm

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AidanKing
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Re: Twin Peaks

#1185 Post by AidanKing » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:01 pm

There's an interesting four-part article on Twin Peaks: the Return by Nick Pinkerton at Reverse Shot starting here.

The reference to George Lucas repeatedly saying he would like to make experimental films reminded me that I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turned out that he had actually done this on a secret, self-funded basis at some point, although I suspect this wouldn't come to light during his lifetime.

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NWRdr4
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Re: Twin Peaks

#1186 Post by NWRdr4 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:30 am

Has there been any recent news regarding the box set for the first two seasons? As far as I can tell, it’s still out of print stateside. Is a Criterion rerelease of the series something that’s even imaginable?

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mfunk9786
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Re: Twin Peaks

#1187 Post by mfunk9786 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:37 am

No, but it almost certainly went out of print because of the rights to the movie changing hands. Judging from how long it's taken between sets in the past, I wouldn't hold my breath for resolution in the form of a new SKU too quickly - just buy it from the UK.

Cde.
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Re: Twin Peaks

#1188 Post by Cde. » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:58 pm

AidanKing wrote: The reference to George Lucas repeatedly saying he would like to make experimental films reminded me that I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turned out that he had actually done this on a secret, self-funded basis at some point, although I suspect this wouldn't come to light during his lifetime.
I'm pretty sure I've read that this is exactly what has happened, and he has only screened these works for select family and friends.

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R0lf
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Re: Twin Peaks

#1189 Post by R0lf » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:22 am

zedz wrote:
Robin Davies wrote:
R0lf wrote:Or if you use phonetics Judy is is just Dougie backwards.
I don't understand this!
That's because it's nonsense! "Judy" and "Dougie" only have two phonemes in common out of four (/d/ and /i/), and they're next to each other in "Judy" and at opposite ends of "Dougie"! The other vowels are completely different and the /dʒ/ in "Judy" and the /g/ in "Dougie" are completely unrelated: they're formed in different parts of the mouth (palato-alveolar vs. velar) in different ways (affricate vs. stop). This is just a case of inventing 'evidence' to prop up a sagging theory.
See this is where it helps to use my full sentence quote without cutting off the end.
R0lf wrote:Or if you use phonetics Judy is is just Dougie backwards the same way Naido is Diane.
The Naido/Diane reasoning follows your explanation too yes?

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zedz
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Re: Twin Peaks

#1190 Post by zedz » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:48 pm

R0lf wrote:See this is where it helps to use my full sentence quote without cutting off the end.
R0lf wrote:Or if you use phonetics Judy is is just Dougie backwards the same way Naido is Diane.
The Naido/Diane reasoning follows your explanation too yes?
I'm not quite sure what you mean by that, but 'Naido' isn't 'Diane' backwards either. They've got three phonemes in common, and they are indeed reversed, but 'Diane' has an extra two phonemes in the middle - /ja/ - and 'Naido' has one at the end. If you're going to rely on evidence as convoluted and esoteric as this, it has to be pretty damn precise, and preferably have some kind of supporting context (though I'll grant that the prevalence of backwards talking in the Red Room arguably provides this for Twin Peaks). The above isn't reasoning: it's a random observation that's demonstrably false plastered over with confirmation bias.

Off the top of my head, here are some other characters whose names have just as many phonemes in common with 'Judy' as 'Dougie':
Gerard, Audrey, Candie, Mandie, Sandie, Andy, Jerry, Johnny, Jacoby, Nadine, Freddie, Heidi, Jade, Sonny Jim, Janey-E, Bradley, Rodney, Jeffries, Marjorie.

If your theory is that 'Dougie' and 'Judy' are similar enough to be significant, you're going to also have to explain the cosmic significance of everybody else on that list. Or you could just conclude that David Lynch has a thing for names that end with an /i/ sound.

Persona
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Re: Twin Peaks

#1191 Post by Persona » Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:10 pm

TV/film/whatever you want to call it, this was my favorite thing that I watched last year. An astounding redirect of the original series into a new and utterly Lynchian long-form experiment/experience. Pretty much everything worked for me on some level (how brilliant to have Cooper's PTSD from 25 years in the Black Lodge channeled into the Tati-esque slow-burn comedy of Dougie, and what an incredible pay-off because Lynch is so patient with it), though some things worked better than others. I, for one, LOVED that finale, episode 18... quite possibly the most haunting hour of television I have ever seen and I can't shake it. To me, only rivaled in the rest of Twin Peaks canon by episode 8 from The Return.

Beautiful box set for the Blu-ray that I will be returning to over and over again for years to come.

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