Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)

Discussions of specific films and franchises.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
nsps
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:25 am
Contact:

Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)

#251 Post by nsps » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:53 pm

jbaart wrote:
markhax wrote:It has 60,000 films, so one can only wonder if there are other treasures lurking there.
There was footage showing its archive in the ARTE documentary. It was quite a lot of material. I'd bet serious money there are other lost films in there.
Pics from an Argentine poster on Nitrateville:

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
perkizitore
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:29 pm
Location: OOP is the only answer

Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)

#252 Post by perkizitore » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:27 pm

Maybe some lost Murnaus sit there... [-o<

User avatar
Tommaso
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:09 am

Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)

#253 Post by Tommaso » Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:25 am

marknyc5 wrote:Here's the note I got from Koerber regarding further restoration:

"I am also very pleased with the result, under the circumstances. One more year of software developent and perhaps one could kill the damage in the Argentine version - however given the schedule this was not possible."

Do people really think so? I think any futher clean up would have to be a frame-by-frame repainting - prohibitively expensive.
I don't know what to think, but Koerber probably knows what he's talking about. And if one more year would have resulted in a substantial improvement perhaps, I wonder why they made this 'schedule' in the first place. Okay, so I'll expect that we can replace our forthcoming 2010 disc with another 'final final' version in the year 2016 or so...

User avatar
TMDaines
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:01 pm
Location: Stretford, Manchester

Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)

#254 Post by TMDaines » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:54 am

Tommaso wrote:
marknyc5 wrote:Here's the note I got from Koerber regarding further restoration:

"I am also very pleased with the result, under the circumstances. One more year of software developent and perhaps one could kill the damage in the Argentine version - however given the schedule this was not possible."

Do people really think so? I think any futher clean up would have to be a frame-by-frame repainting - prohibitively expensive.
I don't know what to think, but Koerber probably knows what he's talking about. And if one more year would have resulted in a substantial improvement perhaps, I wonder why they made this 'schedule' in the first place. Okay, so I'll expect that we can replace our forthcoming 2010 disc with another 'final final' version in the year 2016 or so...
With the last bits of footage discovered somewhere in 2017, leading to the definitive release in 2018!

beresford
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:37 pm

Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)

#255 Post by beresford » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:27 pm

Looking at the second 'monk preaches Apocalypse' scene, does anyone else think it is likely that we have the first scene contained there? If you string together the monk sequences and omit the intercuts to Yoshiwara and the transformation to 'die Schmale' and back, aren't we left with what was probably the first scene in the Cathedral? Or is there too much risk of 'creating a film that never was'?

User avatar
marknyc5
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:38 pm

Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)

#256 Post by marknyc5 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:34 pm

I don't think Fritz Rasp played the monk in the cathedral.

User avatar
markhax
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)

#257 Post by markhax » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:54 pm

beresford wrote:Looking at the second 'monk preaches Apocalypse' scene, does anyone else think it is likely that we have the first scene contained there? If you string together the monk sequences and omit the intercuts to Yoshiwara and the transformation to 'die Schmale' and back, aren't we left with what was probably the first scene in the Cathedral? Or is there too much risk of 'creating a film that never was'?
I checked the screenplay: The first scene is real; it's what Freder witnesses when he enters the cathedral for the first time. It describes a fanatical monk reading the very words, "verily, verily, I say unto you. . . " that the Monk in Freder's nightmare will utter, where he assumes the features of the Thin Man.

User avatar
marknyc5
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:38 pm

Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)

#258 Post by marknyc5 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:07 pm

Tommaso wrote:From this copy the 9.5mm-print was taken at a later stage. How this print came to the institute where it was found about 80 years later seems not entirely clear.
The title card at the beginning of the print shown on ARTE said the new sections came from a 16mm print.

HarryLong
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:39 pm
Location: Lebanon, PA

Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)

#259 Post by HarryLong » Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:35 pm

I'd love clarification on that myself. I've seen the Argentine material specified as 16mm, 9.5mm and even 8mm!

User avatar
marknyc5
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:38 pm

Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)

#260 Post by marknyc5 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:15 pm

Everything I've read says the Argentine print was a 16mm reduction of their 35mm print.

The 9.5 mm print was another copy that was found in Chile and did not contain any new footage, I believe.

I'm not sure what format the New Zealand print was.

User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)

#261 Post by MichaelB » Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:43 am

Surely 3h31 mins is a straightforward typo for 2h31 mins, which is as near to 2h32 mins as makes no difference - especially given variable projection speeds?

Jonathan S
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:31 am
Location: Somerset, England

Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)

#262 Post by Jonathan S » Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:55 am

marknyc5 wrote:Everything I've read says the Argentine print was a 16mm reduction of their 35mm print.
The 9.5 mm print was another copy that was found in Chile and did not contain any new footage, I believe.
I'm not sure what format the New Zealand print was.
Yes, I was always puzzled by mention of the long print being 9.5mm, which was essentially a European format for commercially produced home movies (or amateur film-making). It would have been much easier (and better) to produce a 16mm copy. I suspect the confusion arose because there was an official Pathescope 9.5mm edition of Metropolis (also sold on 8mm in the UK during the 1970s) but it was only five reels. I've never seen it but, as this abridgement was probably made in the 1930s, it seems likely it would have been from the normal theatrical version, as you suggest.

Jason Gorman
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:37 pm
Location: New York

A sample of frame blending

#263 Post by Jason Gorman » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:12 am

Here is an image I cleaned that can be done on all frames (without individually editing). All scratches are vertical, this method motion blurs them sideways but only in between all the edges to preserve as much detail as possible. A better method on static backgrounds would probably be to frame blend. The best method I can think of (not involving frame by frame work) would be to use something like Mokey to generate a matte of foreground objects that have motion, then the backgrounds could be substantially improved. In the future, I am certain cleaning the found Metropolis footage and even regenerating missing edges from the bad crop will be child's play.

Image

Here is an example of frame blending on the background (static) part of the film. Here every time a scratch moves even slightly, the static parts of the image are automatically repaired with very little detail loss (the figure in foreground uses the above method).

Image

User avatar
marknyc5
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:38 pm

Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)

#264 Post by marknyc5 » Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:04 pm

Great work - here are a bunch of comparison clips of the restoration. What do you think?

Jason Gorman
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:37 pm
Location: New York

Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)

#265 Post by Jason Gorman » Fri Mar 05, 2010 7:56 pm

I think the work is amazing. I had no idea that there was that much damage on the original clips!

User avatar
colinr0380
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK

Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)

#266 Post by colinr0380 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:19 am

David Bordwell on the restored footage.

Grand Illusion
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:56 am

Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)

#267 Post by Grand Illusion » Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:29 am

I just returned from the North American premiere of the Argentine cut. The screening was at the Grauman's Chinese Theater in LA. I believe the theater holds 1,200, and it was packed. Metropolis was the closing show for the Turner Classic Movies Film Festival. Announced at the screening was that TCM was successful enough to have another film festival in 2011.

As for Metropolis, not really sure what to say. I purposefully haven't watched my Kino DVD in a while, so my comparisons wouldn't be worth much.

Basically, it was an amazing, epic experience. Truly a film that deserves to be seen on the big screen. The screening also had live orchestration of the original score performed by The Alloy Orchestra. And an evocative score it is. Maria's theme is beautiful. The action theme was rousing and drew applause. And the funeral dirge was powerfully weaved in and out with Maria's theme.

The one thing I can really say is that, because the Argentine footage is easily identifiable from the damage, it's difficult to imagine watching the film without it. The additional scenes are obvious, but I was most surprised at the impact of having extra footage for the scenes that already existed. Even the cutaways and additional coverage are so valuable to the tone and pacing of the film that they seem absolutely necessary in retrospect.

If you're in this thread, you're probably going to pick up the DVD/Blu-ray or you've already seen it on a stream. I don't need to convince you about the worth and value of the new footage. But maybe I can excite you. Watching this was like a brand new film. Fritz Lang's vision is 98% complete, and it's as epic as anything put forth since 1927.

beresford
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:37 pm

Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)

#268 Post by beresford » Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:01 pm

If the Fredersen-Rotwang fight is missing, how did the Argentine cut explain Maria's escape and the subsequent scene where Rotwang wanders off with his hands outstretched? Or was the fight another 'accidental loss' at the end of a reel?

User avatar
marknyc5
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:38 pm

Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)

#269 Post by marknyc5 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:18 pm

Here's what Martin Koerber wrote when I asked him:

"New Zealand was used to replace footage where needed, but the scene in the attic was nowhere, thus remains a title and nothing else, alas. Same for the monk in the cathedral."

cinemartin

Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)

#270 Post by cinemartin » Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:15 pm

It will be playing for 2 weeks at the Film Forum starting May 7.

Grand Illusion
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:56 am

Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)

#271 Post by Grand Illusion » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:21 am

beresford wrote:If the Fredersen-Rotwang fight is missing, how did the Argentine cut explain Maria's escape and the subsequent scene where Rotwang wanders off with his hands outstretched? Or was the fight another 'accidental loss' at the end of a reel?
White text on black. It basically says that Joh Fredersen was outside and overheard Rotwang telling Maria that the Machine-Man would only listen to him. The card then says that they fight and Maria escapes.

Actually, I didn't think they included the footage for Maria escaping after that, since the card explained it. They did, however, eventually cut back to Maria running out.

As was said, only that and the first monk scene receive the exposition cards.

beresford
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:37 pm

Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)

#272 Post by beresford » Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:57 am

I knew that the newly-spliced version had an intertitle. I was wondering how the Argentine copy explained it. My reason for asking was that if the Argentine print had been edited in 1927 before original delivery to remove the scenes (as in the Pollocked version) then our chances of the scenes existing in a copy elsewhere are miniscule. Whereas if the scenes disappeared at the end of a reel then we can still dream.

lady wakasa
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:26 pm
Location: Over Yonder
Contact:

Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)

#273 Post by lady wakasa » Sun May 09, 2010 6:52 pm

Finally saw this on Friday night! It wasn't my favorite silent, and it still isn't - but it's a much fuller, more satisfying film. It's definitely moved up on the list. I'll try to see it one more time before it finishes its run here.

Paula Félix-Didier, the director of the Argentinian film archive, gave a quick talk before the movie, and was in the lobby afterwards. She mentioned that they'd already identified several other movies in the archive which had been transferred to 16mm. They're listed in the NYT article about the NYC run (which I haven't read), but include
- " a Soviet-era silent film long thought to have been lost: Yevgeny Chervyakov’s 1928 My Son.”
- "what the Library of Congress says are the only surviving copies of three American films: a 1916 William S. Hart western called The Aryan; a 1928 drama called The Crimson City, with Myrna Loy and Anna May Wong; and a melodrama from 1921 called The Gilded Lily and starring Mae Murray. "
I thought she mentioned a couple others, but it was late, I was tired, and I wasn't writing anything down. And there may be other films as well; they're still going through the collection.

Apparently they'd had an idea that something was up in Argentina since the late 80s; but, it was actually fortunate that nothing was done until now - when the technology (and funding, I guess) to clean it up actually existed.

NYT article: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/05/movie ... polis.html

User avatar
dad1153
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:32 am
Location: New York, NY

Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)

#274 Post by dad1153 » Mon May 10, 2010 9:43 am

Went to the Saturday afternoon showing of "The Complete Metropolis" at NY's Film Forum. Would have gone to the showings with Paula Félix-Didier in attendance by they conflicted with the Mexican League soccer playoffs (don't ask! :roll: ). Basically after seeing/hearing this version it's impossible for me to comprehend how we were able to do with the previous version's explanation cards and missing footage for all these decades. Every second of the new 16mm footage (which looks rough as hell but, in a darkened theater with that excellent score and the high-def original footage, creates a forgiving mood that sweeps one's senses) seems so integral and essential to the "Metropolis" experience that the immediate destruction of every previous "Metropolis" DVD copy should be mandatory. It's still sad that the Monk and Joh vs. Rotwang scenes are missing, but if we had a choice these would be the one's to ditch compared with the character build-up that Josaphat and The Thin Man receive from the restored footage. The finale now makes sense (previously I didn't quite grasp how the mob mistook the Maria's when chasing the human one across town) and the Fritz Lang epic vision is now more robust and plain for all to see. Other than quite a lot of the score from the 2001 restoration being recycled into the new 25 min. of footage (enough to be noticeable but not bad-enough to bring down the experience) "Metropolis" has never looked, sounded or come across more bad-ass than when it premiered. It's a mandatory Blu-ray purchase for anyone even remotely in love with classic B&W cinema. 8-)

PillowRock
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:54 pm

Re: Metropolis (Fritz Lang, 1927)

#275 Post by PillowRock » Mon May 10, 2010 3:32 pm

the immediate destruction of every previous "Metropolis" DVD copy should be mandatory
Oh, I think that it would be OK to hold off on that destruction until the new versions are actually released. :wink:

Post Reply