The Hateful Eight (Quentin Tarantino, 2015)

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bearcuborg
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Re: The Hateful Eight (Quentin Tarantino, 2015)

#226 Post by bearcuborg » Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:55 pm

Some weirdo came after me through a PM, and in a post a few pages back. Even so, that's based on my own experience more than anything. Still he's far more adored than disliked here.

Even more to the point of my post was how Hateful Eight is inferior to Lonesome Dove. I don't buy the misogyny either, but D Harvey already said it best in his post. I enjoyed the film for the most part, and I liked the event atmosphere of seeing it in 70mm...I just found it largely forgettable, where as LD has stayed with me throughout the years.

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Mr Sausage
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Re: The Hateful Eight (Quentin Tarantino, 2015)

#227 Post by Mr Sausage » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:08 pm

bearcuborg wrote: I think he could have scrapped the whole flashback to be honest.
I don't know why people keep saying either this or that the scene was unnecessary. It's structurally necessary in order to create tension and expectation through delay. Without it, the scene where allegiances and secrets are exposed and violence erupts would transition right to a scene of people sitting or lying around explaining things quickly. That'd be too immediate a release; the surprise wouldn't be allowed to linger and build emotion. By delaying the follow up scene, Tarantino builds further tension by withholding explanations and outcomes. The flashback gives some necessary plot explanations, but mostly we're being made to wait and stew. It's a common structural device from novels, or at least older novels. That delay is important and effective.
bearcuborg wrote:Some weirdo came after me through a PM, and in a post a few pages back. Even so, that's based on my own experience more than anything. Still he's far more adored than disliked here.
That would be when you went back to edit an old post in order to be surreptitiously more abusive towards another member? That, and the language of your current post, is skirting a fine line.

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swo17
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Re: The Hateful Eight (Quentin Tarantino, 2015)

#228 Post by swo17 » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:20 pm

I haven't seen this movie yet but I assume that this thread is some kind of amateur attempt at a plot reenactment, where at page 90 or so, bearcuborg is gonna start 'sploding some heads. Looking forward to it.

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bearcuborg
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Re: The Hateful Eight (Quentin Tarantino, 2015)

#229 Post by bearcuborg » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:35 pm

My latest post is hardly skirting the line of disrespect in any way. I praised two informative contributions. And as for the edit, the PM came before that... I have since blocked that member. I wasn't aiming to be rude, just to put that out there.

In any case , I'm with you on the timing aspect of the flash back. Perhaps cutting back to the cabin after the pre intermission showdown would be abrupt. Point taken... I just think the Minnie character who was introduced wasn't quite the Minnie we hear about in the rest of the picture.

Swo:
Fuck, I should have spoiler proofed that post. Sorry man. I'll go back and fix it.
Last edited by bearcuborg on Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mr Sausage
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Re: The Hateful Eight (Quentin Tarantino, 2015)

#230 Post by Mr Sausage » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:47 pm

Regarding Minnie: this is a movie about people who lie.

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bearcuborg
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Re: The Hateful Eight (Quentin Tarantino, 2015)

#231 Post by bearcuborg » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:55 pm

Sorry, I was taking it literally. Interesting, because Minnie is not that person in the flashback-and considering who brings her up in the barn, it seems that you're correct.

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aox
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Re: The Hateful Eight (Quentin Tarantino, 2015)

#232 Post by aox » Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:43 pm

Any word on QT's next directorial project?

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bearcuborg
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Re: The Hateful Eight (Quentin Tarantino, 2015)

#233 Post by bearcuborg » Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:40 pm

The guys at Colider Movie Talk said he wanted to a Bonnie and Clyde esque story set in Australia, during the 30s. It's an idea he's had since he first went there... I know he's mentioned television too, so who knows.

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Re: The Hateful Eight (Quentin Tarantino, 2015)

#234 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:27 pm

I go to bearcuborg for all my Tarantino news

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Foam
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Re: The Hateful Eight (Quentin Tarantino, 2015)

#235 Post by Foam » Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:36 pm

M. Saus wrote:I don't know why people keep saying either this or that the scene was unnecessary. It's structurally necessary in order to create tension and expectation through delay. Without it, the scene where allegiances and secrets are exposed and violence erupts would transition right to a scene of people sitting or lying around explaining things quickly. That'd be too immediate a release; the surprise wouldn't be allowed to linger and build emotion. By delaying the follow up scene, Tarantino builds further tension by withholding explanations and outcomes. The flashback gives some necessary plot explanations, but mostly we're being made to wait and stew. It's a common structural device from novels, or at least older novels. That delay is important and effective.
I also appreciated Roth's lighting the candle. It made me aware of how well that single candle conveyed the false sense of the haberdashery's calm being disturbed by Ruth and Daisy. A witty detail where the in-world microdeception reflects the whole film's macrodeception.

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bearcuborg
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Re: The Hateful Eight (Quentin Tarantino, 2015)

#236 Post by bearcuborg » Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:52 am

Well, in all fairness I go to Mfunk on how pick fights with mods, so I'm glad I help you out brother.

Does anyone know if he flashback was in the original script?

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Re: The Hateful Eight (Quentin Tarantino, 2015)

#237 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:27 am

In the script the narration was performed in a much deeper voice, and Minnie had many Mexican friends with whom a musical number is performed.

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domino harvey
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Re: The Hateful Eight (Quentin Tarantino, 2015)

#238 Post by domino harvey » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:28 am

Image

Gentlemen, there's no hate in the Hateful Eight thread!

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mfunk9786
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Re: The Hateful Eight (Quentin Tarantino, 2015)

#239 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:33 am

I'm starting to see pictures.

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Trees
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Re: The Hateful Eight (Quentin Tarantino, 2015)

#240 Post by Trees » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:55 am

bearcuborg wrote:The guys at Colider Movie Talk said he wanted to a Bonnie and Clyde esque story set in Australia, during the 30s. It's an idea he's had since he first went there... I know he's mentioned television too, so who knows.
Hateful Eight seems to be struggling at the box office. The Collider guys also engaged in some speculation about why it's struggling compared to other recent Tarantino pics. Their theories mainly centered around poor marketing. Tarantino really tried to push the "70mm" angle, but most moviegoers really do not know what 70mm is and don't really care about it. The film's trailers and marketing seem to have left potential audience members confused as to what the story was. Also, the long run-time and gore might have been daunting for some.

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Re: The Hateful Eight (Quentin Tarantino, 2015)

#241 Post by Drucker » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:57 am

Trees wrote:
bearcuborg wrote:The guys at Colider Movie Talk said he wanted to a Bonnie and Clyde esque story set in Australia, during the 30s. It's an idea he's had since he first went there... I know he's mentioned television too, so who knows.
Also, the long run-time and gore might have been daunting for some.
This is Tarantino we are talking about here...

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TMDaines
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Re: The Hateful Eight (Quentin Tarantino, 2015)

#242 Post by TMDaines » Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:31 pm

Trees wrote:
bearcuborg wrote:The guys at Colider Movie Talk said he wanted to a Bonnie and Clyde esque story set in Australia, during the 30s. It's an idea he's had since he first went there... I know he's mentioned television too, so who knows.
Hateful Eight seems to be struggling at the box office. The Collider guys also engaged in some speculation about why it's struggling compared to other recent Tarantino pics. Their theories mainly centered around poor marketing. Tarantino really tried to push the "70mm" angle, but most moviegoers really do not know what 70mm is and don't really care about it. The film's trailers and marketing seem to have left potential audience members confused as to what the story was. Also, the long run-time and gore might have been daunting for some.
The thing is that they didn't really push the 70mm over here in the UK. They talked a big game in hyping up the 70mm aspect, but then made an exclusive deal to show it in 70mm in only a single British cinema! Only two others are subsequently going to show it later this year. No wonder the second biggest chain in the UK, its arthouse subchain and a further arthouse chain has boycotted the film in protest. Who wants the lesser cut?

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domino harvey
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Re: The Hateful Eight (Quentin Tarantino, 2015)

#243 Post by domino harvey » Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:56 pm

It's a three hour western, it's not hard to see why it didn't do well

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hearthesilence
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Re: The Hateful Eight (Quentin Tarantino, 2015)

#244 Post by hearthesilence » Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:58 pm

An Italian interviewer recently asked Rosenbaum's opinion on this, and he elaborated just a little bit more:

I’ve seen the movie and find it hateful and disgusting. The fact that it totally wastes its opportunity to use 70mm (and I saw it projected that way) is to me of little consequence or interest alongside its view of humanity in general and the audience in particular.

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Re: The Hateful Eight (Quentin Tarantino, 2015)

#245 Post by aox » Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:56 pm

hearthesilence wrote:An Italian interviewer recently asked Rosenbaum's opinion on this, and he elaborated just a little bit more:

I’ve seen the movie and find it hateful and disgusting. The fact that it totally wastes its opportunity to use 70mm (and I saw it projected that way) is to me of little consequence or interest alongside its view of humanity in general and the audience in particular.
I don't really understand the strong visceral reaction that many in the over-50 age group are having with this. I'm not saying there aren't some brutal moments, but even the blood scenes are done in classic QT style where they are so over-the-top that they are deliberately ridiculous. My grandmother (Age 79) who has been seeing at least one movie a week in the cinema since the 1940s (and has seen all previous QT films) actually took time out of her day to send me a completely unsolicited email that mirrors Rosenbaum's. Saying, it was the most vile, disgusting work she had ever seen and QT is a psychopath.

What?

If this movie can elicit that reaction, I don't see how Kill Bill, Inglorious Basterds, and Django get a pass. To me, and assuming I truly understand the argument (which I don't), Hateful Eight seems to be those films on Valium and tame.
SpoilerShow
is this about the few punches to the face (admittedly brutal) that JJL takes?


Because, if that is the main argument, I've seen hundreds of more brutal, "disgusting" films in my life even completely disregarding QT.

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bearcuborg
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Re: The Hateful Eight (Quentin Tarantino, 2015)

#246 Post by bearcuborg » Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:05 pm

At this point, violence in cinema doesn't faze me. In terms of its hatefulness, it's in the damn title. He does tend to soften the edges of nastiness in his last two films though. Django reaching out to King in the barn, and the ending seems to bring Goggins and Jackson together despite their obvious differences. For me, this film does what it's supposed to do, and on that basis I don't really criticize it as a total waste. It's just no Lonesome Dove.

I think the 70mm roadshow really turned audiences away more than it being a western or it's run time. It seems destined to develop a cult following down the line.

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domino harvey
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Re: The Hateful Eight (Quentin Tarantino, 2015)

#247 Post by domino harvey » Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:13 pm

Rosenbaum has a history of statements like this. He hated No Country For Old Men for similar reasons.

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Re: The Hateful Eight (Quentin Tarantino, 2015)

#248 Post by matrixschmatrix » Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:16 pm

Ultimately I don't think it's a misogynist movie- that wouldn't fit with Tarantino's cv, and I think it's fairly clear he's doing something different with it- but in my viewing at least, there was a contingent of the audience, largely bro-comprised, who found it hilarious every time Jennifer Jason Leigh got attacked. I think there is a case to be made that here, as with something like Silence of the Lambs, the effect of a memorable image can overwhelm the actual context of that image, and there are plenty of images of violence against a woman in this movie that call domestic violence irrevocably to mind (not even getting into the shot in the ending.) I can imagine any number of Return of Kings posters making gifs and avatars out of bits of this movie in a way I can't most other movies I've seen in the last few years, even ones that below surface-level had much uglier views of women.

That said, I think Rosenbaum is wrong- this movie is ultimately constructive, I think, trying to create a alternate narrative of the reconstruction period to that of white north and south coming together to defend white womanhood over the bodies of black men that Birth of a Nation popularized, and as such I think it fits with the sort of overarching project of his last few movies. But I left it feeling kind of sick, just as I left Inglourious Basterds, and it's not really violence qua violence that bothers me, so I can't really blame reviewers who found the movie too sickening to see what it was actually up to.

I do wish Tarantino weren't planning to retire, though. I find his filmmaking endlessly compelling, and he seems to be working through something towards some particular end, which I would love to see him get to.
Last edited by matrixschmatrix on Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Hateful Eight (Quentin Tarantino, 2015)

#249 Post by knives » Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:00 pm

We do still have two more tries to see that climax at least.

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Re: The Hateful Eight (Quentin Tarantino, 2015)

#250 Post by DarkImbecile » Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:21 pm

bearcuborg wrote: And as for the edit, the PM came before that... I have since blocked that member. I wasn't aiming to be rude, just to put that out there.
Not to violate Dom's edict against hating in this thread, but just to clarify: you're not claiming that I was the one who PM'ed you, causing you to go back and edit a post directed at me, right? Because I've never once PM'ed you, and if you missed your intended target and want to go back and edit a different post in order to insult that guy, please direct us to it. I'd hate to miss it just because it's two or three pages back.

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