Toni Erdmann (Maren Ade, 2016)

[dda1996a]

Haven't seen this, but isn't the film humor rather specifically European (inasmuch that I don't know what constitutes for German humor)? I fail to see how this sort of film can work in the U.S unless it's completely butchered. What are the chances of another The Vanishing?

[Ribs]

No, like I said, it's such a good central premise that a lot of people leave the theater wanting to cast the remake. It won't have any of the stuff about globalization, obviously, but I'd expect they'll keep some of the better punchlines/set-pieces with little trouble translating them. There's basically two ways this can go, either going the Sundance route and being an indie feature that's more close to the original or the big Paul Feig-style modern studio comedy with big stars that would probably only share the logline with the original. Considering we already *have* this version (and it's spectactular), I'd kind of rather see the second one that's more different.

I am one of the few who *saw* the remake of Secret in their Eyes, which I think is the most recent example that comes to mind of such a thing happening. They stuck kind of close to the original, but made some very strange decisions such as making Chiwetel Ejiofor's job that he's in management with the New York Mets and having a major setpiece set during a Baseball game for some reason, as though they got a note saying "needs more America - add baseball."

[Black Hat]

America's already remade this starring Donald and Ivanka Trump.

[domino harvey]

I'd watch that dinner party

[John Shade]

Considering a lot of the discussion of this movie seems to be weirdly casting a potential American remake this seems inevitable. Will be interesting to see how far they take it towards being a more traditional American comedy movie.

Saw this again last night, and coming in the wake of world events from the past few months, the context (of globalization) actually resonates a hell of a lot more. We've hit the limits of globalization and the anger at what feels like the growing lack of empathy from those who shape our world economy towards those at the lower end of the socio-economic scale does indeed feed very well into the personal elements at the center of the film.

Does anyone else see an obvious similarity between this movie and Adam Sandler's That's My Boy? It's the first thing I thought of when I saw any images of Toni, let alone the movie itself. This is why the American remake seems kind of pointless to me.

And that brings me to my next point - on paper, the plot could've been easily dismissed as something fitting for a sitcom or middling comedy, but it's made in a way that no studio would have allowed. Those long wordless and minimally verbal stretches? No way, they would cut them out or piled on the expository dialogue. The long stretches of dialogue that fully immerse you in the daughter's professional life? They would have been gone. It's remarkable how much of a difference Ade's approach makes, making what's again common sitcom fodder into a very different type of comedy that feels a lot more grounded in reality even though so much of the plot is built on ridiculousness. This made it all the more convincing for me.

Of course this is where my comparison kind of breaks down. Sandler's film relies on his typical shenanigans and buffoonery. We get some weird montage of the entire ritzy crew playing baseball with his oddball weirdo; then a long roller rink montage involving Vanilla Ice.

Now all of you know I've seen that movie....Anyway, ridiculousness is its goal first and foremost, even if it shows a similar kind of social situation. I will say that I think Sandler's dumb movie does, at least slightly, capture the way the lower end of our socio-economic scale is treated by our media (the Dan Patrick sub-plot is kind of showcasing the reality tv obsession to showcase backwoods freaks). Both movies also tap into strange sexual predilections and assumes a kind of class based morality.

[Keyrek]

Does anyone else see an obvious similarity between this movie and Adam Sandler's That's My Boy? It's the first thing I thought of when I saw any images of Toni, let alone the movie itself. This is why the American remake seems kind of pointless to me.

That was the first snarky joke made about the movie when it premiered at Cannes last year.

[John Shade]

Does anyone else see an obvious similarity between this movie and Adam Sandler's That's My Boy? It's the first thing I thought of when I saw any images of Toni, let alone the movie itself. This is why the American remake seems kind of pointless to me.

That was the first snarky joke made about the movie when it premiered at Cannes last year.

Interesting--I didn't really intend it my post or comparison as snark, but I can see how it definitely would play out like that at a festival. I mean the plots are very similar and even the whole fake name/fake relationship thing. I guess since the movie was well received it didn't matter in the end.

[mfunk9786]

Finally got around to seeing this, and I'm very glad I took the time to go to an actual movie theater and see it surrounded by other people. It's got a very unusual, shaggy tone that doesn't necessarily translate to huge laughs until the penultimate scene, but having nervous laughter all around you heightens what I thought was the weakest aspect of the film (the actual times when Toni appears to throw a wrench in Ines' day) to a level it needs to be at to make the rest of it work. The more human moments with Winifried and Ines are just so deeply felt and realized, and of course I wouldn't change a thing, as the level of absurdity that the Toni character is willing to reach pays off in spades when you're laughing your head off and shedding tears simultaneously (now that's two 2016 films that've pulled that stunt on me, Manchester By the Sea being the other) during and immediately following the party setpiece. The dialogue is rich and thoughtful (I know a foreign film getting nominated for Original Screenplay at the Oscars is a rarity, but this should've been in those five) and I can't say enough great things about Sandra Hüller in particular, embodying a very familiar character with a layer of depth that some actresses may not have brought to it. Not to mention how brave of a performance it is - just like Elle changed the way I'll feel whilst closing the windows during a storm, I don't think I'll be able to look at a petit four the same way again. Every move she makes within the character feels 100% right and lived-in and empathetic and fair - it's a heck of a performance.

[Michael Kerpan]

Toni Erdmann finally made it here to Boston. The showing we attended had a good size crowd. who generally found this quite funny (and not much of the laughter seemed "nervous" to me). I enjoyed this a lot -- and found both lead performances really very good. Not even close to edging Paterson out of my top spot (but I doubt anything could -- except maybe the as-yet-unseen Kore'eda and Hong films).

[TMDaines]

This lived up to the hype and then some. After a couple of the big American hitters failing to meet their preceding reputations and becoming quickly forgettable, I've not been able to get this out of my mind since watching it a week ago and have a massive urge to rewatch, something that I never do.

I'e been meaning to post for a while and have been struggling to find the words to do justice to this film. Moments in the film are incredibly funny, but principally it is a drama. It has an awful lot to say, but never feels preachy in doing so. There's dialogue there on consultancy, capitalism, class, globalisation, but you can ignore all that and just focus on the central relationships, to which more personal questions of love, life and death are examined.

The screenplay is simply of the highest standard. As others have pointed out, every character in the film has a purpose. Their well defined personalities develop throughout the piece and their actions are therefore logical during key scenes later on, such as during the birthday, team bonding session.

For what it's worth, I have 1949 films and TV shows rated on IMDB. Until last week, I had only given 13 of them 10. It's now the 14th sitting on the highest tier and the first from post-1980.

[Michael Kerpan]

A query:

SpoilerShow

What do people make of the expression one sees on our heroine's face in the final shot. Also -- how much time do people think elapses between the main body of the film and the final scene?

[mfunk9786]

A query:

SpoilerShow

What do people make of the expression one sees on our heroine's face in the final shot. Also -- how much time do people think elapses between the main body of the film and the final scene?

SpoilerShow

I think it's her manifestation of the same sort of wistful remembrances that Winfried just had, though hers is laced with some degree of guilt and uncertainty. She can't get that time back either, but did less to hang onto it than Winfried has, and she likely does not know if she'll slip back into the same obsessive routine that she just freed herself from, or will be able to strike more of a balance. The proximity to her grandmother's mortality certainly plays a part in this, too. That's a lot for one expression, and I think Hüller nails it. She's still going to remain in the same line of work, just somewhere that she wants to be - and I'm sure there's a good deal of concern on her part that she'll never be able to appease her father's desire to be more in her family's lives.

As for time:

SpoilerShow

My assumption is that she would not have stayed on at her previous company for another year, and there was talk of a one year contract there wrapping up soon. So I would guess 2 or 3 months later, something along those lines? Could be way off, of course, but it does seem like the first time she sees her father since he left Bucharest based on the content of the conversation, serving as his justification of his earlier actions.

[D50]

Saw this more than 48 hours ago and I'm still thinking about it.

SpoilerShow

I have a theory that the dad dies when he fell in the park with the suit stuck on, and he follows her afterward to the funeral watching over her.

[Michael Kerpan]

D50 -- that is hardly consistent with what is shown in the movie.

[mfunk9786]

Yes, what about the scene with the head being pulled off? And she hands him the flowers and takes the teeth out of his pocket. And he isn't ill, just exhausted from being in that ridiculous costume. I can't get on board with that theory even a little bit.

[D50]

If I recall correctly, he only interacts with her after the park scene, and the scene where he walks into what looks like a hotel reception to pull off his head could be in his mind - how / why he still thinks he's alive to watch over her.

[Lars Von Truffaut]

I can't quite remember the details of the epilogue, but I don't think anything in the film gave way to an obvious change in perspective that would indicate he was dead. And even if that were true I don't think we would have gotten that final shot of the expression on Ines's face. The story remains hers.

That being said, my first reaction when Winfried fell was that he'd gone into cardiac arrest. I thought there was a line earlier - maybe it was part of a joke - to which he mentions having to take medication for his heart. Does anyone remember this? I think it was early on, maybe even one of the first scenes when he plays the gag on the delivery guy. It did turn out to be just exhaustion, but I thought they played that beat nicely. I know my heart sank to my stomach for a minute, especially coming right after that warm and fuzzy embrace.

[Kirkinson]

If I recall correctly, he only interacts with her after the park scene, and the scene where he walks into what looks like a hotel reception to pull off his head could be in his mind - how / why he still thinks he's alive to watch over her.

We see him handing out beers to several guests at the funeral reception. Then Ines walks up to him while he's having a conversation with someone else. When she and the other person start talking, someone from off screen calls him over.

[Michael Kerpan]

If I recall correctly, he only interacts with her after the park scene, and the scene where he walks into what looks like a hotel reception to pull off his head could be in his mind - how / why he still thinks he's alive to watch over her.

You must have either left early -- or dozed off.

[mfunk9786]

If I recall correctly, he only interacts with her after the park scene, and the scene where he walks into what looks like a hotel reception to pull off his head could be in his mind - how / why he still thinks he's alive to watch over her.

We see him handing out beers to several guests at the funeral reception. Then Ines walks up to him while he's having a conversation with someone else. When she and the other person start talking, someone from off screen calls him over.

Also, someone asks him "Are you alive, or did you die earlier?" and he responds "No, I'm definitely alive, thank you for asking." I thought that was a pretty good sign that he was indeed not dead.

[D50]

During all of his gags and impersonations, he's always prepared -

SpoilerShow

always has his makeup right, wig, heartrate monitor setup, fake teeth, hats, cover story, etc. Never a mistep. But at the very end, he has to get something to remember the moment - turns and exits quickly, which is when she realizes he's really gone and she reflects on this through her facial expressions.

[mfunk9786]

If anything, I truly admire your commitment to this theory.

[goblinfootballs]

Amazon has a date for a R1 release from Sony Pictures Home Entertainment of 11 April 2017. I'm hoping this bodes well for an eventual Criterion release, though with less delay than The Squid and the Whale or Punch-Drunk Love.

[Ribs]

Criterion's only released Vanya on 42nd Street from the SPC library - don't count on it happening.

[goblinfootballs]

Criterion's only released Vanya on 42nd Street from the SPC library - don't count on it happening.

What about The Long Day Closes, Safe, Before Midnight, and Women on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown? I'm not exactly clear on the intricacies of distribution companies and which one matters when it comes to Criterion securing rights, so any further clarification on the matter would help. The DVD-only release for R1 listed at the moment seems odd, though.