OOP Indicator

Discuss Blu-rays released by Indicator and the films on them.

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MichaelB
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Re: OOP Indicator

#101 Post by MichaelB » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:14 am

Exactly. And Indicator doesn't produce standard editions until after they've gone OOP - in fact, the only time I can recall them announcing one before the LE had sold out was Night of the Demon, but that was the fastest seller in the label's history so they felt that people needed that reassurance.

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rapta
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Re: OOP Indicator

#102 Post by rapta » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:34 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:56 am
...but they've said that Bunny Lake Is Missing, Eyes of Laura Mars, The Last Movie, Torture Garden, Vampires and the three Sinbad films will get standard editions this year (the Sinbad films being released separately). And that will account for all OOP titles to date.
I'm glad that Indicator are being so sensible about this reissuing business. Other boutique labels - I won't name names, but we know who they are - could take note of their way of doing things, especially when it comes to making sure the initial run includes a booklet and therefore people know what they're buying.

But reissuing titles separately is also helpful; they could've easily just released those as a slimmer 3-disc set (sans-book), but that wouldn't be particularly fair to those who bought the original box set. It obviously also means people can pick up whichever Sinbad film they wanted, and aren't locked into buying all three. I feel like the aforementioned labels could have done something like this for recent trilogy/collection reissues and avoided winding up their consumer base (myself included).

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MichaelB
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Re: OOP Indicator

#103 Post by MichaelB » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:46 am

I concede that the second-hand market might blur the distinction (and there's sadly little that Indicator can do about this), but it should notionally always be absolutely clear which is a limited edition with a booklet and which is a standard edition without one.

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tenia
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Re: OOP Indicator

#104 Post by tenia » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:22 am

But in the current case of Arrow, this isn't a question of a LE with booklet and a standard with a booklet, but 2 pressings of the same standard edition.
Especially since Arrow increased the LE frequency, and that they stopped printing the inclusion of booklets on their STD backcover, shouldn't these booklets, quite reduced in content anyway, be considered as mere extra free fluff just like a slipcover on a studio title ?

Calvin
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Re: OOP Indicator

#105 Post by Calvin » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:03 pm

Yes, the issue with Arrow is that unless you buy it on release date then it's a pot luck scenario - there's no indication of how many copies are in the 'first run' and no way of telling what is or isn't a first run copy until you open it up. There's nothing wrong in principle with a booklet being limited, but at least give people some indication as to whether or not they're going to get one with their purchase.

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swo17
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Re: OOP Indicator

#106 Post by swo17 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:16 pm

tenia wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:22 am
But in the current case of Arrow, this isn't a question of a LE with booklet and a standard with a booklet, but 2 pressings of the same standard edition.
Especially since Arrow increased the LE frequency, and that they stopped printing the inclusion of booklets on their STD backcover, shouldn't these booklets, quite reduced in content anyway, be considered as mere extra free fluff just like a slipcover on a studio title ?
Well if you value the booklet as more than extra fluff (which many do), the standard editions including the booklets are effectively limited editions, even if they aren't called that

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tenia
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Re: OOP Indicator

#107 Post by tenia » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:00 am

And the same came be said about the slipcovers.
Which is precisely my point, because I'm unsure the people selling these, being labels or studios, are planning them like they do with an explicitely marketed LE.

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reaky
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Re: OOP Indicator

#108 Post by reaky » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:42 am

Arrow’s recent Iguana with the Tongue of Fire came with an extensively-researched and illustrated 44-page booklet. One of the BFI Film Classics series costs £13 for under 100 pages. The booklets are far more than fluff.

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tenia
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Re: OOP Indicator

#109 Post by tenia » Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:22 am

I'm not at home so can't check the exact figures, but the majority of the recent non-LE Arrow booklets contain only 1 new writing (usually 6 to 8 pages long IIRC) and tons of pictures, ending up being 30% (sometimes even less) text. Glad to learn Iguana has a more thorough one (IIRC, another recent release has a good booklet too), but this currently sadly is the exception rather than the norm, and most are far below what Indicator is doing.

And those BFI Classics books are nice but indeed vastly overpriced. I never bought one that much, but rather £5 apiece (second hand).

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Re: OOP Indicator

#110 Post by MichaelB » Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:50 am

It depends on who's overseeing the projects. On my own for Arrow, I tended to significantly favour text over stills, and a typical word count even for an Amaray-cased release (where you're not supposed to go above 40 pages and I was strongly advised never to exceed 44) was 10-13,000 - which is about half what you'd get in a BFI monograph (I seem to recall that these are capped at 26,000). Off the top of my head, I went to 44 pages on Beyond the Valley of the Dolls, Three Brothers and Hard to Be a God, but quite a few others tipped the scales at 36-40.

But my attitude has always been that the booklet is a very significant part of the overall package. Not least because sometimes it's the only way of including interviews with now-dead participants, because they may not have recorded anything on camera or tape. (For instance, Norman Beaton on Black Joy - as the lead actor, we clearly had to feature his voice somewhere, especially given that so many other bases were covered, but he died 25 years ago and the only on-topic interviews seemed to be print ones.)

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tenia
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Re: OOP Indicator

#111 Post by tenia » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:39 am

As a whole, these text-loaded booklets are sadly not always the norm. I'm seeing this in France a lot, where 200 pages book might actually only contain 40 pages of writings (including sometimes filmographies !). Eureka and Arrow booklets have been often like this for some years now, with writings only adding up to roughly 25% of the whole content, so a Criterion poster-type leaflet actually contains the same amount of writings than a 32 pages Arrow booklet.

This is what's fuelling my main point about how these don't seem to be given tye same amount of care than in the past, and I susupect they actually don't get much resources at all to be able to find ans licence / create enough materials to have a better text-to-pics ratio.

Ans as you can guess, it's not a question of total pages count, but rather words count.

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MichaelB
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Re: OOP Indicator

#112 Post by MichaelB » Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:19 am

Where Indicator differs from every other label that I've ever worked for is that they have a totally separate team working on the booklets. We obviously liaise closely, but in general I don't get to see what they've done until the proofreading stage. And I think that works really well - the problem with having to produce the disc and booklet is that it's very easy to neglect the latter, especially if there are unexpected production challenges.

And of course invariably using the same team (Jeff Billington and Bethan Roberts on editorial content, Robert Riley and Nick Wrigley on design) means that Indicator booklets are very very consistent in quality. Even before I joined the production team I was struck by how good they were, and said as much in a Sight & Sound review of Bunny Lake Is Missing:
The reliably excellent booklet (Indicator are becoming market leaders here) contains a selection of contemporary reviews, a composite interview with Preminger, some on-set photos disconcertingly shot in colour, and an essay by Chris Fujiwara which flags up that a key theme for Preminger was that “if you do not live in our society in a conformist manner, the law does not protect you”.
(In retrospect, that looks like a hilarious bit of sucking-up given that I joined the team myself only a few weeks after that review appeared, but it genuinely wasn't - I had absolutely no idea that they were hiring until an out-of-the-blue phone call.)

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