Un couteau dans le cœur [Knife+Heart] (Yann Gonzalez, 2018)

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bearcuborg
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Re: Trailers for Upcoming Films

#2 Post by bearcuborg » Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:49 am

The soundtrack does a pretty faithful Goblin/Giorgio Mororder thing, but it looks like Tarantino and Gasper Noe beat this movie to two of the trailer’s punchlines.

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Never Cursed
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Re: Trailers for Upcoming Films

#3 Post by Never Cursed » Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:04 am


dda1996a
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Re: Knife + Heart (Yann Gonzalez, 2019)

#4 Post by dda1996a » Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:31 am

Sadly it's a really stupid movie thats the worst of De-Palma, Noe and Mandico and barely gets by on it's texture and silliness

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DRW.mov
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Re: Knife + Heart (Yann Gonzalez, 2019)

#5 Post by DRW.mov » Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:27 pm

I’ll have to wildly disagree. It’s one of the most beautiful horror outings and queer films we’ve had in years. It’s use of the aesthetic and rhythms of giallo films of the time is a pitch perfect choice that elevates the story to a beautifully stylized melancholy.

Calling it a “De Palma clone” of any kind is highly dismissive of the entire subgenre its working within and the purpose of the film.

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DRW.mov
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Re: Un couteau dans le cœur (Yann Gonzalez, 2018)

#6 Post by DRW.mov » Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:29 pm

Also, if the thread title is going to be changed back to the original french, can “cœur” be spelled properly?

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swo17
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Re: Un couteau dans le cœur (Yann Gonzalez, 2018)

#7 Post by swo17 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:32 pm

I'm not the one who changed the title but what's wrong with it?

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domino harvey
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Re: Un couteau dans le cœur (Yann Gonzalez, 2018)

#8 Post by domino harvey » Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:38 pm

Considering the poster uses the “cœur” spelling, nothing

dda1996a
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Re: Knife + Heart (Yann Gonzalez, 2019)

#9 Post by dda1996a » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:37 pm

DRW.mov wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:27 pm
I’ll have to wildly disagree. It’s one of the most beautiful horror outings and queer films we’ve had in years. It’s use of the aesthetic and rhythms of giallo films of the time is a pitch perfect choice that elevates the story to a beautifully stylized melancholy.

Calling it a “De Palma clone” of any kind is highly dismissive of the entire subgenre its working within and the purpose of the film.
That's why I said Noe and Mandico as well, with the later even more so. I was willing at first to roll with it's silliness and it does look great, but the reveal is incredibly silly for my taste, while I cared nothing for Paradis' character. I really wished it were either funnier or deeper. Scary it most definitely isn't, and the emotional side of the film left me cold. I though The Wild Boys silly as well but at least it was engaging and felt more confident in it's weirdness.

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R0lf
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Re: Knife + Heart (Yann Gonzalez, 2019)

#10 Post by R0lf » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:21 am

dda1996a wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:37 pm
I was willing at first to roll with it's silliness and it does look great, but the reveal is incredibly silly for my taste, while I cared nothing for Paradis' character. I really wished it were either funnier or deeper. Scary it most definitely isn't, and the emotional side of the film left me cold. I though The Wild Boys silly as well but at least it was engaging and felt more confident in it's weirdness.
With the reveal did you catch the geometry in the story that the psychic/empathic detective trope that is used to solve the murders is also the same thing that instigated the murders to begin with and it wasn't just random? It's extremely well thought out in the way it plays back into the overall narrative of the film.

Also the movie is pretty spot on for actually giving us three dimensional gay characters who look and act like gay people (not just gay characters created by and for het people) and setting the story around a more or less realistic gay tragedy (which then takes on another gay political irony when the killer is revealed). This might even be down to... a gay director! Given that this type of genre movie has normally been criticised for it's depiction of gay people it's an extraordinary feat for a movie to single handedly unbundle decades of problematic cinema in two hours. It represents each group in the gay, lesbian, bi, trans, AND all as main characters. Is there a single het character even in the movie? More accomplishments for representation! There are also multiple pastiche used from actual 1980s porn titles. Which is, again, an important historical catalogue for gay people.

So when a movie succeeds in representing the LGBT community with it's history and politics and someone just doesn't care or relate it's probably just that you never engaged with those things one way or another...

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Re: Un couteau dans le cœur (Yann Gonzalez, 2018)

#11 Post by dda1996a » Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:30 am

I found the whole reasoning silly, which is fine with me but I checked out emotionally long before.
I am a straight, white male, but I think that it's always reactionary to blame my gender/sexuality etc. for not finding a specific film good. I don't really see a reason to flaunt my credentials or list all the LGBTQ films I love, and my criticism was never towards the characters sexuality or their portrayal.
Also, does a film have to be good if it succeeds in representing a certain milieu or a group? I found the film all surface with a hollow center, which is why I compared this to De-Palma. I'm still interested in Gonzalez and am planning on watching his debut.

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R0lf
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Re: Un couteau dans le cœur (Yann Gonzalez, 2018)

#12 Post by R0lf » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:55 am

Definitely how much you enjoy something is down to personal taste but then going the extra step to dismissing it as all surface with a hollow centre just because you aren’t aware of or engaged with the subject matter isn’t great; when they quite clearly made this movie packed to the gills with social, and political, and cinematic history, not being aware of or engaged with those things is the more charitable conclusion than any other motive someone could have for outright dismissal of the subject matter.

edit. But to add context: I don’t think De Palma is all surface with a hollow centre either.

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domino harvey
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Re: Un couteau dans le cœur (Yann Gonzalez, 2018)

#13 Post by domino harvey » Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:04 pm

R0lf, you’ve been warned before about reading imagined homophobia into users’ posts

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knives
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Re: Un couteau dans le cœur (Yann Gonzalez, 2018)

#14 Post by knives » Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:12 pm

While I suspect I'll like this film, agree with you on DePalma, butthe crux of your argument isn't that strong. After all there are hundreds of LGBT movies made by LGBT individuals that are terrible despite speaking honestly to the human condition. For example while part of the appeal of Charles Burnett is his honest and deep look into the milieu of black America, but that is not his only quality. On the other you have something like Petey Whiteshaw that only have its sociological revelations going for it and no one would accuse it of being a good movie.

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Re: Un couteau dans le cœur (Yann Gonzalez, 2018)

#15 Post by dda1996a » Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:54 pm

R0lf wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:55 am
Definitely how much you enjoy something is down to personal taste but then going the extra step to dismissing it as all surface with a hollow centre just because you aren’t aware of or engaged with the subject matter isn’t great; when they quite clearly made this movie packed to the gills with social, and political, and cinematic history, not being aware of or engaged with those things is the more charitable conclusion than any other motive someone could have for outright dismissal of the subject matter.

edit. But to add context: I don’t think De Palma is all surface with a hollow centre either.
I didn't dismiss the matter! And while I do concede to not being very knowledgeable of the social political etc. of this specific milieu and group, it has never stopped me from loving films from all around the world and different cultures. I believe films have the ability to make one go and invest himself when he finds something fascinating showing up in a film; I have and will continue to read and learn about Taiwanese and Japanese history because I fell in love with their cinema and culture. But I appreciated said films at first.
Also, I am not just a casual watcher of films, I do very much try to tackle films I feel have the capacity to enhance my knowledge. I believe in the ability of cinema and arts to raise my awareness of everything, and having gone through 60s Godard recently I am very aware of that.

Having said all that, I can see some of the political and social critic put forth in the film; I appreciated the film's giallo and retro vibe. But the longer the film went on the less I cared, having found Anna's personal issues complete uninvolving and alienating. If you objected to my use of the word silly, I wasn't referring to the emotional background supplied in the end, but rather the whole reasoning for the killer's return.
My use of the three directors I mentioned is telling. I find all three very interesting, usually love their surface, style, but usually find their content lacking. I like Noe, I like De-Palma (who is a perfect example for trashy, silly Hitchcockian riffs supplied with brilliant style) and some Mandico.
I simply wasn't engaged with the film, finding it not funny enough to not take it seriously, but silly enough on the other hand.

I see that you also took issue with me saying this has a hollow center. I meant emotionally for me. Which is fine, I'm not the person who needs to emotionally invest in the characters to like a film (I adore Weekend and could care less about any character. But also that is the film's point I guess), but, I already mentioned my issues before.
Never said the film itself was empty, just that non of it managed to engage me in any capacity. I'm still giving Gonzalez chances as he does have the ability to craft an interesting film.

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knives
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Re: Un couteau dans le cœur (Yann Gonzalez, 2018)

#16 Post by knives » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:41 pm

This was fun for the most part, but I didn't quite get everything with the killer in the strictly narrative level.
SpoilerShow
Was Guy a zombie for example? I'm assuming her version of the backstory isn't meant to be taken literally?

_shadow_
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Re: Un couteau dans le cœur (Yann Gonzalez, 2018)

#17 Post by _shadow_ » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:26 am

So when a movie succeeds in representing the LGBT community with it's history and politics and someone just doesn't care or relate it's probably just that you never engaged with those things one way or another...
Which movie was that? Certainly not the one in this thread, which is a shallow riff on giallo tropes with a gay bent. And a disappointment, given the potential in bringing a gay perspective to the giallo, with it's long line of "aberrant" psychos and anxieties about gender roles.

The nonsensical explanation for the killer was 100 percent on point for the genre, at least.

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lzx
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Re: Un couteau dans le cœur (Yann Gonzalez, 2018)

#18 Post by lzx » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:10 am

knives wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:41 pm
SpoilerShow
Was Guy a zombie for example? I'm assuming her version of the backstory isn't meant to be taken literally?
SpoilerShow
I believe he survived the fire, albeit with disfiguring burns (hence the mask), and the 1979 Guy is very much human, even if just a shadow of his younger self.
And assuming by "her" you meant Loïs, I did take her narration literally, though there's certainly an air of the oneiric in the way it is presented.

For those of you with library cards (and not in NYC), this is now streaming on Kanopy.

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knives
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Re: Un couteau dans le cœur (Yann Gonzalez, 2018)

#19 Post by knives » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:40 am

Okay, that makes sense and clarifies some themes for me such as how this can't be an aids metaphor. He seems to me then to represent self destructive tendencies on the whole, which today aids can be caused by, that develop out of society enforced self loathing.

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R0lf
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Re: Un couteau dans le cœur (Yann Gonzalez, 2018)

#20 Post by R0lf » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:20 pm

_shadow_ wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:26 am
So when a movie succeeds in representing the LGBT community with it's history and politics and someone just doesn't care or relate it's probably just that you never engaged with those things one way or another...
Which movie was that? Certainly not the one in this thread, which is a shallow riff on giallo tropes with a gay bent. And a disappointment, given the potential in bringing a gay perspective to the giallo, with it's long line of "aberrant" psychos and anxieties about gender roles.

The nonsensical explanation for the killer was 100 percent on point for the genre, at least.
So here’s the “with a gay bent” “gay perspective” I’m pulling from KNIFE+HEART:

1. All the named characters in the film fall on the LGBT spectrum. The only other film I can name that has done that is THE BOYS IN THE BAND and that only features gay men. This is one of those merits like when feminists cite that (until recently) THE WOMEN or PETRA VON KANT were the only movies to feature all female characters.

2. It doubles down on that by placing those characters in an actual gay community. The clubs and bars that this is set in are the historically safe places we’ve established. They’re the places where our culture was defined and our liberation started. Their depiction is also accurate. The particulars of gay grooming and behaviour are so dead on they could be any of the people I know or see around. It presents gay and trans sex workers as a community with no stigma. It represents gay POC. It depicts fun and healthy BDSM. And in an age where people complain DRAG RACE should represent women too it gives us a lesbian drag show. Just to emphasise this point again: the movie is filled wall to wall with these rich depictions of LGBT people that are elsewhere either represented as a lone character or completely MIA from cinema.

3. It triples down by then having at it’s core gay themes: a story of family rejection of a gay boy and the abuse at the hands of his family. This is so real to life and hits so close to the centre of trauma for the LGBT community. LGBT children are still abused and rejected by their family, they’re made homeless, they have higher rates of self harm and suicide. Trans people are still murdered in the streets.

Now, why is this important? Because it removes the heterosexual context it also then removes the pervasive framing of itself as a “gays struggling against adversity from heterosexuals” narrative. Combined with “see gays are just like straight people” cinema these are the only real narratives we’re getting at the moment. They’re thin and they’re exhausting. We need movies of our own about us. Movies that include our community and our history. Movies that let us celebrate gay identity and gay culture.

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